Emo Andy Dalton after a trip to Sephora on Groundhog Day (Carr thread)

[RaiderandBulldog]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Raiders/stat ... 3878636548

[Dark Horse]

[quote=RI RAIDER post_id=1129678]I HOPE you guys are right about getting something for Carr but I just do not see it. Poor execution by our management if they wanted or thought they could get something for him. They should have just never said anything about his benching and just told DC you are our guy and we are sitting you so you do not get hurt. They should have had him dress and kept things on the down low.[/quote]Huh? He believe he could have dressed initially but he chose to leave the team. Even in that case. he dressed and didn't start, that is the definition of a benching. Also, if he was "our guy" we wouldn't be getting rid of him in the first place, so I don't think there was a way to dress things up. I agree that we aren't getting a first and I maintain that getting a 3rd is a win.

[FLORIDARAYDAH]

[quote=RI RAIDER post_id=1129678]I HOPE you guys are right about getting something for Carr but I just do not see it. Poor execution by our management if they wanted or thought they could get something for him. They should have just never said anything about his benching and just told DC you are our guy and we are sitting you so you do not get hurt. They should have had him dress and kept things on the down low.[/quote]What difference would that have made?

[RI RAIDER]

[quote=FLORIDARAYDAH post_id=1129692]What difference would that have made?[/quote]The difference is exposing your hand and intentions vs not announcing what you plan to do. My take is that if they played it differently, they would have more of a chance to trade him. Now teams are just going to wait it out (rightfully so). You can disagree, but that is just the way I see it.

[Attyla]

[quote=RI RAIDER post_id=1129698]The difference is exposing your hand and intentions vs not announcing what you plan to do. My take is that if they played it differently, they would have more of a chance to trade him. Now teams are just going to wait it out (rightfully so). You can disagree, but that is just the way I see it.[/quote]that would not have worked. We were on life support but still technically in the playoff hunt. Had we told him we were just keeping him from injury, even he would have seen through that. And other teams would have seen through it too. If we were moving on from Carr, the right thing to do was to bench him and tell him why and also make it clear to the league that we have a player under contract we want to move and let the pieces drop where they may. We had already telegraphed this possibility with the contract he signed.

[FLORIDARAYDAH]

[quote=RI RAIDER post_id=1129698]The difference is exposing your hand and intentions vs not announcing what you plan to do. My take is that if they played it differently, they would have more of a chance to trade him. Now teams are just going to wait it out (rightfully so). You can disagree, but that is just the way I see it.[/quote]Everyone still knows the details of his contract. I don't think it would change anything. If you are shopping him they know your intentions

[RI RAIDER]

[quote=Attyla post_id=1129707]that would not have worked. We were on life support but still technically in the playoff hunt. Had we told him we were just keeping him from injury, even he would have seen through that. And other teams would have seen through it too. If we were moving on from Carr, the right thing to do was to bench him and tell him why and also make it clear to the league that we have a player under contract we want to move and let the pieces drop where they may. We had already telegraphed this possibility with the contract he signed.[/quote]I am not arguing with what your saying. Carr (gift) signed that contract so I am sure he was already smart enough to read the tea leaves. I just think they would have been better served if he dressed and went thru the motions instead of bringing this out in the public. They could have had private discussions telling him that that would try to trade him. If they went this route, I think they could have camouflaged their intent (very little) instead of screaming that they would ultimately release him. The bottom line is that I do not think he will be traded (and thats fine). I just continue to read trade scenarios and I do not believe it for a second (hopefully I am wrong). I believe some are setting themselves up for disappointment if they believe we get something of significance (if anything at all).

[RI RAIDER]

[quote=FLORIDARAYDAH post_id=1129731]Everyone still knows the details of his contract. I don't think it would change anything. If you are shopping him they know your intentions[/quote]The threat of picking up another year of his contract might have made a QB horny team jump. When you let it be known that you will ultimately release him, it stifles an already small market for teams wanted his services via trade.

[Attyla]

[quote=RI RAIDER post_id=1129732]I am not arguing with what your saying. Carr (gift) signed that contract so I am sure he was already smart enough to read the tea leaves. I just think they would have been better served if he dressed and went thru the motions instead of bringing this out in the public. They could have had private discussions telling him that that would try to trade him. If they went this route, I think they could have camouflaged their intent (very little) instead of screaming that they would ultimately release him. The bottom line is that I do not think he will be traded (and thats fine). I just continue to read trade scenarios and I do not believe it for a second (hopefully I am wrong). I believe some are setting themselves up for disappointment if they believe we get something of significance (if anything at all).[/quote]I think there is a good chance he accepts a trade. It is certainly in his best interest financially as that contract will continue to pay him well. There are no guarantees on the open market. Too risky in my opinion. With Brady retiring, teams who are on the cusp are seeing Jackson getting tagged, a limited Market for Rodgers by design of Green Bay and a very injury prone Jimmy G. By default, teams may need to evaluate their needs in a slightly different fashion if they believe they are a piece away. Carr is not viewed league wide the way he is viewed among the Raiders faithful. While not a robust market, certainly a market that will find a home for him as a starter. The easiest way to not have to compete with other teams would be a trade.

But if it does not happen, while disappointed, I will at least find solace in knowing that we have a shot at a Raiders style QB in the future. I want a gritty guy who demands excellence like we have had going back to our beginnings through the Gannon years. I want that guy and he is out there waiting to take pride in being a bastard.

[RI RAIDER]

[quote=Attyla post_id=1129735]I think there is a good chance he accepts a trade. It is certainly in his best interest financially as that contract will continue to pay him well. There are no guarantees on the open market. Too risky in my opinion. With Brady retiring, teams who are on the cusp are seeing Jackson getting tagged, a limited Market for Rodgers by design of Green Bay and a very injury prone Jimmy G. By default, teams may need to evaluate their needs in a slightly different fashion if they believe they are a piece away. Carr is not viewed league wide the way he is viewed among the Raiders faithful. While not a robust market, certainly a market that will find a home for him as a starter. The easiest way to not have to compete with other teams would be a trade.

But if it does not happen, while disappointed, I will at least find solace in knowing that we have a shot at a Raiders style QB in the future. I want a gritty guy who demands excellence like we have had going back to our beginnings through the Gannon years. I want that guy and he is out there waiting to take pride in being a bastard.[/quote]


I think he will (if he hasn't already). The problem would then become convincing a team to make a trade vs waiting it out. I can see a teams negotiating with Carr during his free talk with teams (and with the Raiders blessing). I wouldn't be surprised if they unofficially work out the contract during these talks. It works best for both Carr and his new team. The new team doesn't have to give up draft capital making Carr worth more to his new team. He could get a incentive laden contract and not lose any $ (considering his going away gift from the Raiders).

I could not agree more about our future QB. I will take a guy with less talent (Carr does have talent) but wants to leave it all on the field. I'm glad we are turning the page on this, because I care about the front of the uniform and not the back. We knew what our ceiling was with Carr, and it was not good.

[Attyla]

We are at our best when we focus on defense. We got away from that when Davis got desperate after the SB loss.

The Raiders formula, when it is at its best, is top notch corners, a mean interior pass rush, big offensive linemen and really good receivers. When we got that, a QB who can play like hell is all we need. No real flash, just guts and glory. We need to get back to our identity.

[heavyD]

[quote=Attyla post_id=1129742]We are at our best when we focus on defense. We got away from that when Davis got desperate after the SB loss.

The Raiders formula, when it is at its best, is top notch corners, a mean interior pass rush, big offensive linemen and really good receivers. When we got that, a QB who can play like hell is all we need. No real flash, just guts and glory. We need to get back to our identity.[/quote]Winning on the arm of an elite QB only works when you actually have an elite QB. I think it's time for this organization to start building the right way and form a defense that can slow down the Mahomes, Herberts, Burrow and Allen. The 49ers and Eagles are proof that if you build a top notch defense you can win with moderate talent at the QB position. Heck Steelers have remained competitive for years now despite having some of the worst QB play in the league because their defense always keeps them in games.

[Attyla]

[quote=heavyD post_id=1129748]Winning on the arm of an elite QB only works when you actually have an elite QB. I think it's time for this organization to start building the right way and form a defense that can slow down the Mahomes, Herberts, Burrow and Allen. The 49ers and Eagles are proof that if you build a top notch defense you can win with moderate talent at the QB position. Heck Steelers have remained competitive for years now despite having some of the worst QB play in the league because their defense always keeps them in games.[/quote]Madden and Davis debated for years the key components to a team. Tops on both lists were Offensive linemen and Corners. Davis thought corners were #1 and Madden thought OL were #1. They both had the other as #2. That was how we built our teams, kick ass offensive linemen and island corners. The rules have, I think, reduced the effectiveness of corners somewhat but the theory still stands. If your QB has time to go through their progressions, and if you can defend the pass effectively, you put yourself in position to win.

I think with today's rules, while you need both of the above, you also need a pass rush that can get after the QB from the interior out. We have the outside guys, we need the interior. Our Oline needs to be better pass protecting and our corners need upgrading. It is why I want Joey Porter Jr. Plays very well, can play on an island and has a great pedigree. Worthy of the 7th pick for sure and will be a day 1 starter who will get NFL speed from the start.

[BigJerk]

BREAKING: 49ers QB Brock Purdy Needs Tommy John Surgery, Will Now Miss All Of Next Season
..... Tom Brady announces Retirement, for Good This Time.

This raises the trade market for Carr.

[Attyla]

[quote=BigJerk post_id=1129790]
This raises the trade market for Carr.
[/quote]I think it will motivate them to resign Jimmy

[live.B.A.raida]

https://www.reddit.com/r/raiders/commen ... ame=iossmf

Apparently word coming from Carr’s camp is that he prefers to be traded, which is exactly what I’d expect so he doesn’t have to “compete” on the open market. In getting a trade with that salary he knows a team really wants him and will not have to compete for the starting spot.