Emo Andy Dalton after a trip to Sephora on Groundhog Day (Carr thread)

[RaiderandBulldog]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Raiders/stat ... 3878636548

[sooperkool]

[quote=Attyla post_id=1067980]so Carr leads the team to the playoffs but does not lead the team to his overall record and that is a circle jerk?

Let's not resort to the baser reactions of the masses. Let's not resort to the inconsistencies and run away implying you are taking the higher ground. It is simple. Either he took the team to the playoffs and he took the team to his overall record or both are the result of the team as a whole. Your implication of higher ground rings rather biased to the truth otherwise.[/quote]Oh I'm not taking the higher road or even inferring that I am. I also have never gotten into the "QB wins" debate because it is nebulous and pointless. In fact, scour my posts, I have never engaged in that discussion. I'm not even really engaging in this one...just pointing out that we went to the playoffs twice with Carr as QB.

[Raidernation1979]

[quote=raiders93 post_id=1067982]There’s objectively better QBs than Carr that have struggled to post a good record when they’ve been on bad teams. A QB like Carr has led us to the playoffs a couple times but he certainly hasn’t carried us there.

Looking at last season - even just examining the defences your top QBs had. If I take the average ranking between points allowed and turnovers as their overall ranking (below):

QB INDEX:

- Brady: defence - 5th
- Rodgers: defence - 11th
- Allen: defence - 2nd
- Herbert: defence - 24th
- stafford: defence - 13th
- burrow: defence - 17th
- mahomes: defence - 7th
- Murray: defence - 9th
- Prescott: defence - 4th
- Carr: defence - 28th

Point being that I generally don’t think it’s fair to give too much credit or blame to any QB for the team record. There’s exceptions where a great QB produces a good record with a shitty team or where a great team is held back by a shitty QB… but for the most part a team that wins isn’t being carried by a QB or carrying a QB.[/quote]Is that a points ranking or yards? Also yes the defense is certainly a contributing to overall wins. The defense is not as much a contributing factor to offensive output. Chargers 4 spots away defensively ran on avg 2.3 plays per game than us. Yet Herbert demolished Carr in TD/Int and beat him in yardage and rating. Just a quick example. We aren’t losing 35-38. Most of our losses, especially this past year the offense was just bad. Fortunately later in the season the defense came I’ve to help

[signal]

[quote=raiders93 post_id=1067982]There’s objectively better QBs than Carr that have struggled to post a good record when they’ve been on bad teams. A QB like Carr has led us to the playoffs a couple times but he certainly hasn’t carried us there.

Looking at last season - even just examining the defences your top QBs had. If I take the average ranking between points allowed and turnovers as their overall ranking (below):

QB INDEX:

- Brady: defence - 5th
- Rodgers: defence - 11th
- Allen: defence - 2nd
- Herbert: defence - 24th
- stafford: defence - 13th
- burrow: defence - 17th
- mahomes: defence - 7th
- Murray: defence - 9th
- Prescott: defence - 4th
- Carr: defence - 28th

Point being that I generally don’t think it’s fair to give too much credit or blame to any QB for the team record. There’s exceptions where a great QB produces a good record with a shitty team or where a great team is held back by a shitty QB… but for the most part a team that wins isn’t being carried by a QB or carrying a QB.[/quote]Point taken. But with the array of offensive weapons that the Raiders have at their disposal, the Offense better carry the team in 2022. Yes, the D needs to show up. But this team is built to score points, a lot of points. When you have three offensive weapons that are widely considered among the best...you better f[raiders_icon]cking put up some crooked numbers.

[CWood24]

[quote=Trainnvain post_id=1067976]We have also been told repeatedly that the qb owns the team record. There are hundreds of posts supporting this[/quote]We’re constantly reminded of HIS 4th quarter comebacks & game winning drives so are they a team stat or an individual stat

The spin should be good on this one

[Amish Cabal]

[quote=FlyBono24 post_id=1067945]The poster I was arguing with LITERALLY just said the defense, and special teams, and other positions "did their job" or whatever he said, during the Bengals playoff game. So he was implying that Carr was to blame.

Then I gave him a bunch of instances where other players f[raiders_icon]cked up, and he's like "I didn't say Carr was 100% to blame"

Apparently some people on here need to take Logic 101 courses.[/quote]THAT game, Carr was our biggest weakness. There have been SEVERAL games, including 7 out of 8 games played at Arrowhead, Carr was our biggest weakness. Not every loss has been Carr's fault, however. Clear now?

[GoodTimeCharlie]

At the end of the day, it’s only a handful of us here on this thread in “Raiderforums” that are tired of Carr…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QlgYct6I-no

[26 docofdeath]

[quote=Attyla post_id=1067960]Chris Simms says Carr is the worst QB in the division. I am sure this has been discussed. But I was on vacation so I have to tear the bandaid off the cut[/quote]So now Chris Simms is an expert. I guess you don't have to be a great QB to critique one.

[Raider727]

[quote=Jeremyturner1976 post_id=1067970]He said 'took the team to the playoffs'. I count once, pre-paycheck.

Playoffs are decided weeks 8-16 and Carr was terrible in that stretch (A consistent theme for him given his same collapse in '17, '19, and '20), the defense however was top 5 in that stretch in ppg allowed. The team took him to the playoffs, not the other way around.

Lots of QBs get carried to playoffs, hell Bortles was carried to a championship game. Bortles did not take the Jags there. That is my point.[/quote]Derek Carr career stats week 9-17(63 total games):

82 touchdown passes


5 rushing touchdowns


45 interceptions


42 fumbles


20 fumbles lost


87 total touchdown passes


87 total interceptions/fumbles


65 total turnovers


22+ on touchdowns vs turnover rate in 63 total games


Carr doesn't even average half a touchdown in point differential a game in the second half of the season.

Kinda hard to make a push to get in the playoffs when the QB(the most important position in football) is inconsistent in the 2nd half of the season.

[Raider727]

[quote=Raider727 post_id=1067993]Derek Carr career stats week 9-17(63 total games):

82 touchdown passes


5 rushing touchdowns


45 interceptions


42 fumbles


20 fumbles lost


87 total touchdown passes


87 total interceptions/fumbles


65 total turnovers


22+ on touchdowns vs turnover rate in 63 total games


Carr doesn't even average half a touchdown in point differential a game in the second half of the season.

Kinda hard to make a push to get in the playoffs when the QB(the most important position in football) is inconsistent in the 2nd half of the season.[/quote]But it's the defenses fault

[GoodTimeCharlie]

[quote=Raider727 post_id=1067994]But it's the defenses fault [/quote]No dude, it’s the Refs…

[CWood24]

[quote=26 docofdeath post_id=1067991]So now Chris Simms is an expert. I guess you don't have to be a great QB to critique one.[/quote]Funny because people on here quote David all the time when he is praising his brother so i guess all his praise means nothing then

[Raiders Baby]

Short Rant:

The bottom line is Carr's legacy will only be able to be determined at a future date, when his career is over. Hyperbolically, if he won 5 SBs in a row, he would go down as an undisputed all-time great and his rocky start would be cited by future hopeful fanbases in their 450 page QB threads about why their guy is the next Derek Carr. On the other extreme, if he decided to retire before this season, he would be regarded as a big-talent guy who never fully put it together. OK, but nothing special. Obviously, neither of them is very likely to happen -- my point is that while everyone believes their opinion in this thread is well-informed, Carr's story is not yet fully written.

IMO, the next few seasons will be a huge part of how his story will be remembered. He currently is playing with the best team he's ever played with (on paper), and over the next few seasons we will have real opportunities to make upgrades to an already solid roster before we have to pay the piper and make tough decisions. If he rises to the challenge and delivers real results, cynical bastards like me and some of the other ABC guys will soften our tones. We'll have to, and the ones who don't will look stubborn. The bigger the result the better -- if he wins the SB, I will be begging forgiveness for ever doubting Carr, but even if we win a handful of meaningful playoff games I will personally remember Carr as a guy who made Raider football fun again. But let's say we are just a one'n'done the next few years, or worse, fail to make the playoffs due to the competitiveness of our division... doesn't take nostradamus to figure out that many of Carr's fans will sour on him and relegate him to a "I wish he did more". And most of the ABC guys will wonder what would've happened if we had just moved on.

The current regime set Carr up well to give him his best chance ever to succeed. Now he has to go do it -- yes, this team still does have its imperfections, and we will likely suffer injuries as all teams do. Will he lean on excuses, or step up and play his best ever football to try to make a real claim at the Lombardi trophy?

[Jeremyturner1976]

[quote=Raider727 post_id=1067993]Derek Carr career stats week 9-17(63 total games):

82 touchdown passes


5 rushing touchdowns


45 interceptions


42 fumbles


20 fumbles lost


87 total touchdown passes


87 total interceptions/fumbles


65 total turnovers


22+ on touchdowns vs turnover rate in 63 total games


Carr doesn't even average half a touchdown in point differential a game in the second half of the season.

Kinda hard to make a push to get in the playoffs when the QB(the most important position in football) is inconsistent in the 2nd half of the season.[/quote]Just saying, the cold weather was never an issue, he just plays poor late in the year.

They figure him out or something, hopefully it is not just choking. I really think McDaniels is aware of that and he should plan on a system change mid year. Carr does x when y happens, my guess is enough film and teams seem to figure out x.

It would explain the dropoff.

In '19 and '21 the falloff in his play was huge and both of these were with us having a lead on making the playoffs by midseason. It is that level of pressure is that hurts his game the most.

In Carr's defense on this last years playoffs, imo he did carry us in a couple of this years very early games. I thought he really played some top notch football in some of those and deserves that call out. If we can get that in December - awesome, until then - his record says he plays worse the higher the stakes. That is a terrible trait.

He has played a large part in this teams success or lack of. Not wholly at fault but definitely not without blame.

[Raidernation1979]

[quote=Jeremyturner1976 post_id=1068003]Just saying, the cold weather was never an issue, he just plays poor late in the year.

They figure him out or something, hopefully it is not just choking. I really think McDaniels is aware of that and he should plan on a system change mid year. Carr does x when y happens, my guess is enough film and teams seem to figure out x.

It would explain the dropoff.

In '19 and '21 the falloff in his play was huge and both of these were with us having a lead on making the playoffs by midseason. It is that level of pressure is that hurts his game the most.

In Carr's defense on this last years playoffs, imo he did carry us in a couple of this years very early games. I thought he really played some top notch football in some of those and deserves that call out. If we can get that in December - awesome, until then - his record says he plays worse the higher the stakes. That is a terrible trait.

He has played a large part in this teams success or lack of. Not wholly at fault but definitely not without blame.[/quote]He has never played well in big games from my perspective. Even in college against a bad usc team in college.

[GoodTimeCharlie]

”The McDaniels Effect”

B9329597-FA9D-4A1C-8CE8-1BCEE99438AE.jpeg

…we hope