Emo Andy Dalton after a trip to Sephora on Groundhog Day (Carr thread)

[RaiderandBulldog]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Raiders/stat ... 3878636548

[GoodTimeCharlie]

[quote=NoClapsPlease post_id=1055010]Bc they have career years with Carr and other teams overpay for them[/quote]Starting Wide Receivers who’ve left the team as soon as their contract was up in the Carr Era, and their best statistical season.

Zay Jones (Best Year 2018, Buffalo)
Nelson Agholor (Best Year 2020, L.V.)
Tyrell Williams (Best Year 2016, S.D.)
Jordy Nelson (Retired. Best Year 2014, G.B.)
Seth Roberts (Best Year 2018, L.V.)
Amari Cooper (Traded. Best Year 2019, DAL)
Michael Crabtree (Best Year 2012, S.F.)
Cordarrelle Patterson (Best Year 2021 ATL)

2 out of 8 have had their best statistical year with Carr as their QB before they either signed with a different team, got traded, or retired.

But you know, keep slappin’ lipstick on that pig.

[Raidernation1979]

TDs:Turnovers
Complete failure in big moments
TDs to yardage comparison.

Carr is horrible in all these metrics. This isn’t championship caliber qb play.

[tactician]

[quote=Raidernation1979 post_id=1055070]TDs:Turnovers
Complete failure in big moments
TDs to yardage comparison.

Carr is horrible in all these metrics. This isn’t championship caliber qb play.[/quote] That's the bottom line. Not enough touchdowns. Who cares about empty yards

[NoClapsPlease]

[quote=GoodTimeCharlie post_id=1055056]Starting Wide Receivers who’ve left the team as soon as their contract was up in the Carr Era, and their best statistical season.

Zay Jones (Best Year 2018, Buffalo)
Nelson Agholor (Best Year 2020, L.V.)
Tyrell Williams (Best Year 2016, S.D.)
Jordy Nelson (Retired. Best Year 2014, G.B.)
Seth Roberts (Best Year 2018, L.V.)
Amari Cooper (Traded. Best Year 2019, DAL)
Michael Crabtree (Best Year 2012, S.F.)
Cordarrelle Patterson (Best Year 2021 ATL)

2 out of 8 have had their best statistical year with Carr as their QB before they either signed with a different team, got traded, or retired.

But you know, keep slappin’ lipstick on that pig.[/quote]Crabtrees best years were in LV. Look at that TD column. Zay Jones didn’t start until after a third of the season started. Patterson only played in very specific packages. So out of all these guys, the ones who got actual playing time, had good years, plenty of targets, plenty of catches.

Stop reaching. The narrative that Carr holds a receiver back is 100% false.

You don’t like the guy, fine. But to act like he doesn’t consistently spread the ball around to all his receivers is ridiculous

[Raider727]

[quote=NoClapsPlease post_id=1055103]Crabtrees best years were in LV. Look at that TD column. Zay Jones didn’t start until after a third of the season started. Patterson only played in very specific packages. So out of all these guys, the ones who got actual playing time, had good years, plenty of targets, plenty of catches.

Stop reaching. The narrative that Carr holds a receiver back is 100% false.

You don’t like the guy, fine. But to act like he doesn’t consistently spread the ball around to all his receivers is ridiculous[/quote]Crabtree never played in LV and Zay had his best year in Buffalo. It's all good with me to like Carr and all but he's still a wack ass QB in my book. I wish he was elite but he's not, so f[raiders_icon]ck him. I don't hate him as a person, I can at least respect that part of him but him on the football field overall, no thanks. Can't wait for him to kick rocks.

[Raider727]

I'm about to go on a rant sorry......

People who defend Carr, like to blame everyone but Carr.
This and that but never Carr.

But for every Carr excuse there's always a counter.

If coaching had a better QB they would look better.

If receivers had a better QB they would look better.

If the offense could score touchdowns, the defense would look better.

When the Raiders are losing Carr doesn't make incredible plays to win games.

If he is making incredible plays to win games, show me!!!!

I know nobody can't, those who say they can are full of shit, straight up!!!

[Willmark]

[quote=NoClapsPlease post_id=1055103]Crabtrees best years were in LV. Look at that TD column. Zay Jones didn’t start until after a third of the season started. Patterson only played in very specific packages. So out of all these guys, the ones who got actual playing time, had good years, plenty of targets, plenty of catches.

Stop reaching. The narrative that Carr holds a receiver back is 100% false.

You don’t like the guy, fine. But to act like he doesn’t consistently spread the ball around to all his receivers is ridiculous[/quote]Or it’s possible that receivers make Carr look good.

[Rainman56]

[quote=1970 455+ post_id=1054990]Have you seen Adam's College stats??? If not, you should look. BTW... Carr was his QB[/quote]Yes...Carr pre snap reads Adams...Drops back and waits for Adams to shake loose then throws him the ball...Alot of his big plays Carr had all day to wait knowing Adams would get open at some point,especially playing in the "weaker" conference.

Carr doesn't have the luxury of absolutely no pass rush week in and out like he did in college...The few times he actually did in college he folded just as he has consistently done in the NFL.

Adams is a great WR...Would he help the Raiders offense?Definitely but I'm not convinced you'll see the pitch and catch scenario you did in college.Will you get 20-30 mill better production out of Adams over a young 1st rounder???

Furthermore for what Adams would cost you could argue it would be detrimental to the team getting better as a whole...I personally want no part of Adams at the price he wants.

[danchase45]

[quote=GoodTimeCharlie post_id=1055056]Starting Wide Receivers who’ve left the team as soon as their contract was up in the Carr Era, and their best statistical season.

Zay Jones (Best Year 2018, Buffalo)
Nelson Agholor (Best Year 2020, L.V.)
Tyrell Williams (Best Year 2016, S.D.)
Jordy Nelson (Retired. Best Year 2014, G.B.)
Seth Roberts (Best Year 2018, L.V.)
Amari Cooper (Traded. Best Year 2019, DAL)
Michael Crabtree (Best Year 2012, S.F.)
Cordarrelle Patterson (Best Year 2021 ATL)

2 out of 8 have had their best statistical year with Carr as their QB before they either signed with a different team, got traded, or retired.

But you know, keep slappin’ lipstick on that pig.[/quote]What metrics are you using for this "Best Year." I can argue the majority were more productive under Carr.

Zay Jones (Best Year 2018, Buffalo) - 2018 he had 652 yards on 102 targets. 2021 he had 546 yards on 70 targets. That is approaching 800 yards if he gets 102 targets last year. 67% catch percentage with Carr versus 55% in 2018. Less TD's though, but we could argue that some players were more productive TD wise with Carr.

Tyrell Williams (Best Year 2016, S.D.) - First 4 weeks when healthy he had 4 TD's with Carr. Played the rest of the season injured and never recovered. He had 651 yards, 6 TD's, on 64 targets. In 2016 he had 1059 yards, 7 TD's, on 119 targets. If he got 119 targets with his production with Carr it would have been 1210 yards and 11 TD's. But 2016 was his best year according to you.

Jordy Nelson (Retired. Best Year 2014, G.B.) - The dude was done and cut from Green Bay. However he had 88 targets in both 2017 and 2018. With the same targets he had 739 yards with the Raiders and 482 with Green Bay. One year older and slower.

Amari Cooper (Traded. Best Year 2019, DAL) - That year was his best, but not insanely better than his first two years with Carr. He is a great WR regardless of who is the QB. All the talent in the world with no mental toughness.

Michael Crabtree (Best Year 2012, S.F.) - His best days were behind him after his injury. However, if you want to count TD's as a WR best stat, you could argue he played his best under Carr. 25 TD's in 46 games. With the 49ers he had 26 TD's 79 games. So if you argue Zay Jones was more productive in Buffalo than in Vegas because of more TD's, you have to admit Crabtree was more productive as a Raider than a 49er at the tail end of his career.

Cordarrelle Patterson (Best Year 2021 ATL) - The guy wasn't a WR for us and shouldn't even be mentioned. He played a lot of RB last year and got a lot of snaps at that position.

We have had below average WR's for years now and enough is enough. We need some damn talent at that position. Renfrow is a great player, but we need a true number 1, which we have had since Cooper.

[Opoponax50]

[quote=tactician post_id=1055081] That's the bottom line. Not enough touchdowns. Who cares about empty yards[/quote]If I wanted to keep Carr, the argument I'd make for why his yards are so valuable is that 1) They keep the D off the field, which of course keeps the opposing offense off the field, and 2) While those yards don't add up to TDs, they do produce a lot of field goals, and we won a lot of games last year off Carlson's foot due to Carr's ability to get yards between the 20s/into field goal range at the end of games.

So there's that.

[GoodTimeCharlie]

[quote=danchase45 post_id=1055267]What metrics are you using for this "Best Year." I can argue the majority were more productive under Carr.

Zay Jones (Best Year 2018, Buffalo) - 2018 he had 652 yards on 102 targets. 2021 he had 546 yards on 70 targets. That is approaching 800 yards if he gets 102 targets last year. 67% catch percentage with Carr versus 55% in 2018. Less TD's though, but we could argue that some players were more productive TD wise with Carr.

Tyrell Williams (Best Year 2016, S.D.) - First 4 weeks when healthy he had 4 TD's with Carr. Played the rest of the season injured and never recovered. He had 651 yards, 6 TD's, on 64 targets. In 2016 he had 1059 yards, 7 TD's, on 119 targets. If he got 119 targets with his production with Carr it would have been 1210 yards and 11 TD's. But 2016 was his best year according to you.

Jordy Nelson (Retired. Best Year 2014, G.B.) - The dude was done and cut from Green Bay. However he had 88 targets in both 2017 and 2018. With the same targets he had 739 yards with the Raiders and 482 with Green Bay. One year older and slower.

Amari Cooper (Traded. Best Year 2019, DAL) -That year was his best, but not insanely better than his first two years with Carr. He is a great WR regardless of who is the QB. All the talent in the world with no mental toughness.

Michael Crabtree (Best Year 2012, S.F.) - His best days were behind him after his injury. However, if you want to count TD's as a WR best stat, you could argue he played his best under Carr. 25 TD's in 46 games. With the 49ers he had 26 TD's 79 games. So if you argue Zay Jones was more productive in Buffalo than in Vegas because of more TD's, you have to admit Crabtree was more productive as a Raider than a 49er at the tail end of his career.

Cordarrelle Patterson (Best Year 2021 ATL) - The guy wasn't a WR for us and shouldn't even be mentioned. He played a lot of RB last year and got a lot of snaps at that position. (I didn’t use his RB stats, but we can chalk it up as another coaching crew lacking the creativity to use him. Aaannd, Best Year 2021)

We have had below average WR's for years now and enough is enough. We need some damn talent at that position. Renfrow is a great player, but we need a true number 1, which we have had since Cooper.[/quote]
“If Ifs And Buts Were Candy And Nuts.”

Gonna assume you mean “haven’t” in the last paragraph, and abso-fuckin’-lutely. Tim Brown was the last true stud we’ve drafted. I’ll throw Jordy’s and Crabtree’s stats in screencaps and let people decide for themselves.

[BluegrassRaider]

[quote=Opoponax50 post_id=1055357]If I wanted to keep Carr, the argument I'd make for why his yards are so valuable is that 1) They keep the D off the field, which of course keeps the opposing offense off the field, and 2) While those yards don't add up to TDs, they do produce a lot of field goals, and we won a lot of games last year off Carlson's foot due to Carr's ability to get yards between the 20s/into field goal range at the end of games.

So there's that.[/quote]We were only 22nd in time of possession last season so at least at first glance that argument isn't super strong but if you go back we do land middle of the league and better, I think in 19 we were top 10.

I tend to chalk much of that to the running game being stronger but you make a coherent case to dig into.

[danchase45]

[quote=GoodTimeCharlie post_id=1055427]Gonna assume you mean “haven’t” in the last paragraph, and abso-fuckin’-lutely. Tim Brown was the last true stud we’ve drafted. I’ll throw Jordy’s and Crabtree’s stats in screencaps and let people decide for themselves.[/quote]Your Jordy Nelson proof is idiotic. He was completely done as a WR and that is proof? Too early in the day to smoke crack. I am shocked that a 33/34 WR didn't produce as well as he did when he was 29.

You do realize Crabtree tore his ACL and was never the same receiver as he was. Carr got a lot out of him with the speed he never recovered.

[Jeremyturner1976]

First, I am not saying 'do this', just thinking.

So - moneyball theory.
Let's say Carr gets 4 years at 35. So 140 million.

What if we were to frontload cap hits. For example - Carr 100 million cap hit this year, but then we only pay him 13.33 in '23, 24, and '25.

That gives us the 'rookie' QB advantage for going all in, without the risk of a rookie. It also gives us an 'extremely' valuable trade commodity if needed.

It also locks us into a very high draft pick next year, as we would only be able to keep the foundational pieces, vet minimums all around the rest of the way.

I mean, crazy enough it just might work - or just crazy?

* Again, it is not even possible for us, we don't have the cap space - but honestly, it might be a way to force a SuperBowl window with a QB in the Kirk Cousins/Tannehill/Garrapolo group?

[GoodTimeCharlie]

[quote=danchase45 post_id=1055450]Your Jordy Nelson proof is idiotic. He was completely done as a WR and that is proof? Too early in the day to smoke crack. I am shocked that a 33/34 WR didn't produce as well as he did when he was 29.

You do realize Crabtree tore his ACL and was never the same receiver as he was. Carr got a lot out of him with the speed he never recovered.[/quote]Take deep breaths dude. Relax. Here’s why I posted anything…

[quote=GoodTimeCharlie post_id=1054506]Our wide receivers sure do hurry to leave our elite quarterback whenever the opportunity comes up.[/quote] [quote=NoClapsPlease post_id=1055010] Bc they have career years with Carr and other teams overpay for them[/quote]Either you agree with “NoClapsPlease” or you are all hot and bothered with your own thing. And if it’s your own thing, I have no idea what it is. All I’m hearin’ is a fella with fussy-britches.