Emo Andy Dalton after a trip to Sephora on Groundhog Day (Carr thread)

[RaiderandBulldog]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Raiders/stat ... 3878636548

[Attyla]

[quote=heavyD post_id=1050267]If you are taking a step back at the QB position you are getting worse. If you are getting worse you are gravitating in the direction of a rebuild. Broncos have assembled a roster which is top to bottom better than the Raiders except at the QB position and it’s why the Raiders keep finishing ahead of them. If the plan is to finish last in the division, trading Carr will absolutely achieve that.[/quote]depends on the trade off, if you move back with the QB but save money and use the money to enhance other positions it is shifting the emphasis but not necessarily the direction of the team. It has been known to happen before.

[Raider727]

[quote=Willmark post_id=1050266]I’m confused.

Why there are complaints about this thread? Is there some hidden forum feature that compels a person to read, let alone post in it?[/quote]What is funny to me is how the same people who defend Carr with every excuse in the book and talk about supporting the players on the team, shit on the rest of the team and blame them for everything, except Carr. You can't have it both ways.

[live.B.A.raida]

[quote=NoClapsPlease post_id=1050259]- So sign a guy that specializes in turnovers and spin our tires for two years while we hope to get a QB that’s worth a damn in the draft

Or

You could just draft a QB and let the competition take care of itself.[/quote]Refresh my memory, how many turnovers did Carr have vs tds last season? Lol cmon Claps…

[raiders93]

[quote=Jeremyturner1976 post_id=1050147]Definitely, I was looking at Salary cap not the cap hit, thanks. So 21 + 28 = 24.5 a year is why they took the trade. He can be cut after this year with no dead cap also.

I am no fan of Wentz, but the defense did not throw those 4 extra Touchdowns and the 12th compared to 28th ranked offensive line did not cause Carr to throw twice as many interceptions. The run game runs the football - no ints or touchdown passes there and Carr's 6 extra fumbles came from sacks not runs.

PFF had Wentz at around 74 and Carr around 78, that is fair. They are not light years apart - statistically Wentz had a far better season though.

23 touchdowns, 14 interceptions, and 13 fumbles is garbage no matter who is playing around the QB.

We should not have to carry a 40 million dollar QB to bettervthan garbage stats, you said yourself we have to. We agree on that.[/quote]We both agree has not worth close to 40 million. The other item I agree with you on is turnovers (specifically fumbles)… the rate at which he fumbles is pretty unforgivable.

At the same time - you’re comparing what is now a past years performance between QBs that had wildly different circumstances… as though their production will always be what it was last year regardless of their circumstances going forward.

The fact that a defence can’t throw 4 TDs doesn’t detract from the fact that if the defence gives you 18 extra possessions… some of those are likely to end in TDs you wouldn’t have got otherwise.

That a running game doesn’t directly put up passing yards… it opens up play action and keeps the defence committed to the run and probably most important… keeps you out of a lot of 3rd and longs. None of those factors are likely to influence TDs and turnovers?

That a good o-line leads to less sacks leads to less fumbles or mistakes under pressure… that’s inconceivable?

You’re comparing a QB that really was responsible for not f[raiders_icon]cking up while his defence and running back did most of the heavy lifting…. To one that was responsible for basically carrying an offence that couldn’t run, protect him, or even provide more than 1 receiver that could get open.

[Amish Cabal]

[quote=NoClapsPlease post_id=1050231]I keep seeing this but what QB is sitting around that everyone wants?????

I guarantee it will be a trash QB with less experience and less upside.

He got us to the playoffs under the worst circumstances possible. Why is the disconnect from reality so wide on here when it comes to what type of season we just had. I just don’t get it.

8 years, 6 coaches.[/quote]And those last few games were won in spite of him. Vs the Bengals, every unit did enough to win that game, our biggest liability was at QB. As per usual late in the season. I don't get the disconnect in the failure of fans to see that.

A trash QB with less upside? What exactly is Derek's upside? I'm sure you read the scouting report posted here more than once. I'm sure we can find 23 TDs and 20+ turnovers for much less than $30 mil.

Derek needs to be let go so he can "get with his buddies and go win a Super Bowl" as he once said. Quit doing us a favor.

[NoClapsPlease]

[quote=Hellbound post_id=1050262]Moving on from a qb is not a rebuild. Not sure why you're saying it is[/quote]If new coach, new GM, new front office, and trading a QB away isn’t indications of a new build, then im waving the white flag bc there seems to be a rebuttal for everything said on here. I’ll just agree to disagree.

I received this same experience when I said we had a chance to make the playoffs after losing to KC. I was called all sort of stuff, even got banned for defending myself - yet, here we are again.

[heavyD]

[quote=Attyla post_id=1050269]depends on the trade off, if you move back with the QB but save money and use the money to enhance other positions it is shifting the emphasis but not necessarily the direction of the team. It has been known to happen before.[/quote]Really? When? I specifically used the Broncos because they represent a team that has enhanced all positions and are still worse than the Raiders because Carr is better than their QB’s. It’s a QB driven league and without a good one you can’t win. The Rams had a great roster but could not get over the hump until they upgraded the QB position. What you are saying has know to happen before does not happen anymore.

[Attyla]

[quote=heavyD post_id=1050275]Really? When? I specifically used the Broncos because they represent a team that has enhanced all positions and are still worse than the Raiders because Carr is better than their QB’s. It’s a QB driven league and without a good one you can’t win. The Rams had a great roster but could not get over the hump until they upgraded the QB position. What you are saying has know to happen before does not happen anymore.[/quote]if you shift down in QB but shift up in other areas it does not mean you move toward rebuild. It depends on who you replace the QB with

[Willmark]

[quote=Raider727 post_id=1050270]What is funny to me is how the same people who defend Carr with every excuse in the book and talk about supporting the players on the team, shit on the rest of the team and blame them for everything, except Carr. You can't have it both ways.[/quote]All part of the Carr Defense strategy;:

“Heads I win, tails you lose.”

It’s blatantly obvious in its usage.

[black soul]

[quote=Raider727 post_id=1050246]Herbert is better than Carr. I understand the Raiders made the playoffs and Chargers didn't, but Herbert had a better season, than Carr last year.

If Carlson and Jacobs didn't ball out the last 4 games, including the last game vs the chargers, the chargers would have made the playoffs instead.

Carr didn't even throw for 200 yards the last game of the season vs the chargers and they went into overtime for crying out loud.

It's fine rooting for your team and supporting the teams players. I root for Carr to play well on game day, but I ain't gonna lie to myself and act like 8 year veteran Carr is better than 2nd year Herbert.

Carr's last 2 seasons:

2021 - 4,804 yards passing 23 td passes 14 ints

2020 - 4,103 yards passing 27 td passes 9 ints

Herbert's last 2 seasons:

2021 - 5,014 yards passing 38 td passes 15 ints

2020 - 4,336 yards passing 31 td passes 10 ints[/quote]Yup, it's pretty remarkable that some can find a way to convince themselves the Qb here is better than Herbert is. Some may use the year end game as the reason where the Qb here didn't even throw for 200 yards. If one was being honest about comparing the two Qb's performances in that game or the season and come to the conclusion Herbert isn't better they may want to get their eyes checked.

[Raidernation1979]

[quote=NoClapsPlease post_id=1050251]So ignore the coach part?

Belichek and mcdaniels vs bisacia and Olsen

Minus a no. 1 receiver

Carr literally performed a miracle when we had every reason to lose every single game left in the season[/quote]Carr literally had trouble scoring 20 points. That isn’t a miracle

[black soul]

[quote=Raider727 post_id=1050265]Extending Carr to a huge contract, when they still have to extend Crosby and Renfrow isn't smart. How are the Raiders supposed to get better when they won't have money to sign talent?

Crosby and Renfrow have earned an extension, unlike Carr.

They have balled out on cheap rookie deals, while Carr is coming off the biggest contract of all-time, at the time he got it and hasn't done jack shit since(unless being an alternate in the 2017 probowl means something).[/quote]Waller is very underpaid in comparison to top TE's around the league as well. Not sure he's just going to sit tight if he sees the Qb getting 35-40 mil without making some noise.

[Raider727]

This thread needs to be changed to the future extended QB thread

[Rainman56]

[quote=Hellbound post_id=1050256]The only thing with franchise tagging him is what would his on field performance be? Does he make "business decisions" like we've seen before or does he go out and play as he should? I know what my answer is[/quote]He never has gone out and "play as he should"...He isn't gonna put himself in harms way to make a play whether he gets paid or not...Carr is his name,full fetal is his game.

[Hellbound]

[quote=NoClapsPlease post_id=1050274]If new coach, new GM, new front office, and trading a QB away isn’t indications of a new build, then im waving the white flag bc there seems to be a rebuttal for everything said on here. I’ll just agree to disagree.

I received this same experience when I said we had a chance to make the playoffs after losing to KC. I was called all sort of stuff, even got banned for defending myself - yet, here we are again.[/quote]But the roster isn't getting gutted like it would on a true rebuild. Changing a piece here and there isn't rebuilding imo