Emo Andy Dalton after a trip to Sephora on Groundhog Day (Carr thread)
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RaiderandBulldog
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Opoponax50
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[quote=deathstar post_id=1043044]People are entitled to their own opinion but I will say the opinions on this thread are a minority of what many Raiders fans regarding Carr. Raider fans will still support the Raider if Derek Carr is the Raider QB or not. I believe Derek Carr is a game manager and there have been all worse QB since Gannon than Derek Carr. You did not stop wanting to be Raider fans when Raiders could barely games with Art Shell 2.0. What makes Derek Carr so different, I don't think it is his QB play. I think it is more or less the image you have of Derek Carr.[/quote]The difference is that we knew for example, that Andrew Walter wasn't going to be the QB in 2007. No way, no how. He didn't have it and neither did all the other failures that came and went (although Jason Campbell got robbed of a potential playoff season via injury).
The upshot is that even though we were terrible in the moment, there was going to be change, and change allows for hope.
It's been 8 years and we know exactly what Carr is. We've seen his ceiling and it's not going to get any higher. This leaves us with the following options:
1. Keep him and pay him ~$32 million+, which would cripple our cap due to his mediocre point production.
2. Keep him but convince him to pay for $15 million or less, which would give us more room to re-sign producers and FA's.
3. Get what we can for him in trade.
Everyone saw what elite QBs do this past weekend. They make the biggest plays in the biggest games at the most important times. Carr will never do that. Hell. he still hasn't bothered learning to effectively play-fake or pump-fake. He has some wheels, but he's only going to use them once every 3-4 games or so.
He's not going to become a multi-read, scan the field, see it before it happens type of thrower either. He's a one read, locked on guy. That's what he's always been, it's what he'll always be. The same applies to pocket presence.
He had almost as many turnovers as TDs this past season.
So what do you do with a QB like that? He either plays cheap or you can find someone to replace him.
Carr isn't going to play cheap, so he has to go.
The upshot is that even though we were terrible in the moment, there was going to be change, and change allows for hope.
It's been 8 years and we know exactly what Carr is. We've seen his ceiling and it's not going to get any higher. This leaves us with the following options:
1. Keep him and pay him ~$32 million+, which would cripple our cap due to his mediocre point production.
2. Keep him but convince him to pay for $15 million or less, which would give us more room to re-sign producers and FA's.
3. Get what we can for him in trade.
Everyone saw what elite QBs do this past weekend. They make the biggest plays in the biggest games at the most important times. Carr will never do that. Hell. he still hasn't bothered learning to effectively play-fake or pump-fake. He has some wheels, but he's only going to use them once every 3-4 games or so.
He's not going to become a multi-read, scan the field, see it before it happens type of thrower either. He's a one read, locked on guy. That's what he's always been, it's what he'll always be. The same applies to pocket presence.
He had almost as many turnovers as TDs this past season.
So what do you do with a QB like that? He either plays cheap or you can find someone to replace him.
Carr isn't going to play cheap, so he has to go.
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Jeremyturner1976
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[quote=Attyla post_id=1043060]my happiness is not an issue. I am a fan, I hope the decisions they make are going to get me a Lombardi before I die, I have been disappointed for decades. But that does not mean I do not come back for more disappointment.[/quote]I just hope you are incorrect about him hog tying the new coach/GM to Carr. It would absolutely not surprise me however. The rest sounds very likely.
Mark Davis should never coach or GM per Al when he was at the top of his game. I have zero reason to doubt that Al was correct and yet it sounds like Mark is doing just that.
Great.
Mark Davis should never coach or GM per Al when he was at the top of his game. I have zero reason to doubt that Al was correct and yet it sounds like Mark is doing just that.
Great.
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deathstar
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[quote=Fade2SilverAndBlack post_id=1043051]Mitchell Renz ran a poll on twitter on which QB is better.....
(Edit) I absolutely think most of them that voted for Carr are Carr 1st fans & not Raiders fans or Carr 1st Raiders 2nd fans....
39.1% think Carr is better than Herbert 1444 votes...
62% think Carr is better than Jackson 2082 votes
20.5% think Carr is better than Mahomes 1074 votes
19.1% think Carr is better than Josh Allen 1100 votes
38.1% think Carr is better than Burrow 1199 votes[/quote]I would not vote for Derek Carr among those QB but there is nothing wrong with being a homer. If Rentz did a poll on best defensive player and people voted for Maxx Crosby over Aaron Donald or TJ Watt, are they not Raiders fans? What about voting Renfrow over D Adams or Hopkins. Voting is far, far, different than giving a player a contract.
(Edit) I absolutely think most of them that voted for Carr are Carr 1st fans & not Raiders fans or Carr 1st Raiders 2nd fans....
39.1% think Carr is better than Herbert 1444 votes...
62% think Carr is better than Jackson 2082 votes
20.5% think Carr is better than Mahomes 1074 votes
19.1% think Carr is better than Josh Allen 1100 votes
38.1% think Carr is better than Burrow 1199 votes[/quote]I would not vote for Derek Carr among those QB but there is nothing wrong with being a homer. If Rentz did a poll on best defensive player and people voted for Maxx Crosby over Aaron Donald or TJ Watt, are they not Raiders fans? What about voting Renfrow over D Adams or Hopkins. Voting is far, far, different than giving a player a contract.
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KennyPowers
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[quote=Opoponax50 post_id=1043062]The difference is that we knew for example, that Andrew Walter wasn't going to be the QB in 2007. No way, no how. He didn't have it and neither did all the other failures that came and went (although Jason Campbell got robbed of a potential playoff season via injury).
The upshot is that even though we were terrible in the moment, there was going to be change, and change allows for hope.
It's been 8 years and we know exactly what Carr is. We've seen his ceiling and it's not going to get any higher. This leaves us with the following options:
1. Keep him and pay him ~$32 million+, which would cripple our cap due to his mediocre point production.
2. Keep him but convince him to pay for $15 million or less, which would give us more room to re-sign producers and FA's.
3. Get what we can for him in trade.
Everyone saw what elite QBs do this past weekend. They make the biggest plays in the biggest games at the most important times. Carr will never do that. Hell. he still hasn't bothered learning to effectively play-fake or pump-fake. He has some wheels, but he's only going to use them once every 3-4 games or so.
He's not going to become a multi-read, scan the field, see it before it happens type of thrower either. He's a one read, locked on guy. That's what he's always been, it's what he'll always be. The same applies to pocket presence.
He had almost as many turnovers as TDs this past season.
So what do you do with a QB like that? He either plays cheap or you can find someone to replace him.
Carr isn't going to play cheap, so he has to go.[/quote]You forgot the best option. Don't sign an extension have him play out his last year of his contract. Then franchise him after this season. You can always trade him on a franchise tag.
The upshot is that even though we were terrible in the moment, there was going to be change, and change allows for hope.
It's been 8 years and we know exactly what Carr is. We've seen his ceiling and it's not going to get any higher. This leaves us with the following options:
1. Keep him and pay him ~$32 million+, which would cripple our cap due to his mediocre point production.
2. Keep him but convince him to pay for $15 million or less, which would give us more room to re-sign producers and FA's.
3. Get what we can for him in trade.
Everyone saw what elite QBs do this past weekend. They make the biggest plays in the biggest games at the most important times. Carr will never do that. Hell. he still hasn't bothered learning to effectively play-fake or pump-fake. He has some wheels, but he's only going to use them once every 3-4 games or so.
He's not going to become a multi-read, scan the field, see it before it happens type of thrower either. He's a one read, locked on guy. That's what he's always been, it's what he'll always be. The same applies to pocket presence.
He had almost as many turnovers as TDs this past season.
So what do you do with a QB like that? He either plays cheap or you can find someone to replace him.
Carr isn't going to play cheap, so he has to go.[/quote]You forgot the best option. Don't sign an extension have him play out his last year of his contract. Then franchise him after this season. You can always trade him on a franchise tag.
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Fade2SilverAndBlack
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[quote=raiders1988xyz post_id=1043058]are you happy if the raiders give carr 35M for 5 years?[/quote]That's not even the worst part. The new GM/HC is basically being told by the owner not only are you signing him to an extension. You are going to build around him and married to him (figure of speech). You are stuck with him the next 5 seasons no matter what...
He's under contract for 2022. Mark Davis wanting to give him an extension now is lunacy. I hope any GM/HC worth his salt tells Davis to go pound sand....
He's under contract for 2022. Mark Davis wanting to give him an extension now is lunacy. I hope any GM/HC worth his salt tells Davis to go pound sand....
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Attyla
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[quote=Fade2SilverAndBlack post_id=1043067]That's not even the worst part. The new GM/HC is basically being told by the owner not only are you signing him to an extension. You are going to build around him and married to him (figure of speech). You are stuck with him the next 5 seasons no matter what...
He's under contract for 2022. Mark Davis wanting to give him an extension now is lunacy. I hope any GM/HC worth his salt tells Davis to go pound sand....[/quote]Like I said, I will be in somewhat of the minority on that opinion. But I am fairly certain given the history and my observations that is the case.
Consider, Mark hired Gruden and the first words out of his mouth was that he came out of retirement to coach up Carr which is interesting considering Mark abandoned his team on the cusp of a playoff berth to be with Carr when he broke his leg. The fact that Mark wanted an offensive weapon for Carr when the defense was shaky and was vocal about it cannot be understated. Mark has always been a player fan and this is another example of the fan in him coming out.
He's under contract for 2022. Mark Davis wanting to give him an extension now is lunacy. I hope any GM/HC worth his salt tells Davis to go pound sand....[/quote]Like I said, I will be in somewhat of the minority on that opinion. But I am fairly certain given the history and my observations that is the case.
Consider, Mark hired Gruden and the first words out of his mouth was that he came out of retirement to coach up Carr which is interesting considering Mark abandoned his team on the cusp of a playoff berth to be with Carr when he broke his leg. The fact that Mark wanted an offensive weapon for Carr when the defense was shaky and was vocal about it cannot be understated. Mark has always been a player fan and this is another example of the fan in him coming out.
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Raider727
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[quote=KennyPowers post_id=1043066]You forgot the best option. Don't sign an extension have him play out his last year of his contract. Then franchise him after this season. You can always trade him on a franchise tag.[/quote]That is the best option if you plan on keeping him imo as well.
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KennyPowers
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[quote=Raider727 post_id=1043076]That is the best option if you plan on keeping him imo as well.[/quote]He is playing on a cheap contract for a QB. I'm not being unreasonable that it's the best option. I've had my questions about his leadership before this season. But he held this team together and made the playoffs. This team wasn't good enough on either side of the ball to compete for a championship. This team has gaping holes on both sides of the ball and questionable coordinators. QB isn't this teams problem.
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Raider727
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[quote=KennyPowers post_id=1043079]He is playing on a cheap contract for a QB. I'm not being unreasonable that it's the best option. I've had my questions about his leadership before this season. But he held this team together and made the playoffs. This team wasn't good enough on either side of the ball to compete for a championship. This team has gaping holes on both sides of the ball and questionable coordinators. QB isn't this teams problem.[/quote]I'm just not a fan of Carr's style of play. He has a good arm though, whenever he steps in his throws. He can run fast, but is not elusive. Only play I can think Carr made by being elusive was on that throw to Renfrow to get in fg range vs the colts this season.
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Fade2SilverAndBlack
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[quote=Attyla post_id=1043074]Like I said, I will be in somewhat of the minority on that opinion. But I am fairly certain given the history and my observations that is the case.
Consider, Mark hired Gruden and the first words out of his mouth was that he came out of retirement to coach up Carr which is interesting considering Mark abandoned his team on the cusp of a playoff berth to be with Carr when he broke his leg. The fact that Mark wanted an offensive weapon for Carr when the defense was shaky and was vocal about it cannot be understated. Mark has always been a player fan and this is another example of the fan in him coming out.[/quote]I don't think you are in the minority. I think a lot of us are thinking what you are and worried about it...
If you can. You had said with Harbaugh there was something else you weren't at liberty to tell at that time. Can you do it now?
Also do you know what the deal is with Harbaugh. Is Mark the one getting the cold feet. Doesn't wanna pay up/some people in the building not wanting him. Or does Harbaugh just not want the Raiders job...
You, Hellbound and fattestmallon (twitter) have been my Harbaugh news people....
Consider, Mark hired Gruden and the first words out of his mouth was that he came out of retirement to coach up Carr which is interesting considering Mark abandoned his team on the cusp of a playoff berth to be with Carr when he broke his leg. The fact that Mark wanted an offensive weapon for Carr when the defense was shaky and was vocal about it cannot be understated. Mark has always been a player fan and this is another example of the fan in him coming out.[/quote]I don't think you are in the minority. I think a lot of us are thinking what you are and worried about it...
If you can. You had said with Harbaugh there was something else you weren't at liberty to tell at that time. Can you do it now?
Also do you know what the deal is with Harbaugh. Is Mark the one getting the cold feet. Doesn't wanna pay up/some people in the building not wanting him. Or does Harbaugh just not want the Raiders job...
You, Hellbound and fattestmallon (twitter) have been my Harbaugh news people....
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BoJacksonRules
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I actually like Carr, but if this team pays him top end type money they are f[raiders_icon]cking stupid. Sign him to an incentive laden contract to Wins and not Stats.
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srv5490
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[quote=KennyPowers post_id=1043079]He is playing on a cheap contract for a QB. I'm not being unreasonable that it's the best option. I've had my questions about his leadership before this season. But he held this team together and made the playoffs. This team wasn't good enough on either side of the ball to compete for a championship. This team has gaping holes on both sides of the ball and questionable coordinators. QB isn't this teams problem.[/quote]No, he's not on a cheap contract. He was the 7th highest paid QB in 2021, and was not the 7th best. He's been paid beyond his value for most of his current contract. Next year he will be at a reasonable, but not cheap salary relative to the other QBs in the league.
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Attyla
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[quote=Fade2SilverAndBlack post_id=1043087]I don't think you are in the minority. I think a lot of us are thinking what you are and worried about it...
If you can. You had said with Harbaugh there was something else you weren't at liberty to tell at that time. Can you do it now?
Also do you know what the deal is with Harbaugh. Is Mark the one getting the cold feet. Doesn't wanna pay up/some people in the building not wanting him. Or does Harbaugh just not want the Raiders job...
You, Hellbound and fattestmallon (twitter) have been my Harbaugh news people....[/quote]Harbaugh has an offer, he has countered and they are talking.
At the time, I had direct knowledge that Harbaugh had been to Vegas on the company jet. People were saying he had not interviewed but that is not true. Not only has he interviewed, he has discussed the GM situation. My info is that Harbaugh specifically expressed concern about Mayock.
If you can. You had said with Harbaugh there was something else you weren't at liberty to tell at that time. Can you do it now?
Also do you know what the deal is with Harbaugh. Is Mark the one getting the cold feet. Doesn't wanna pay up/some people in the building not wanting him. Or does Harbaugh just not want the Raiders job...
You, Hellbound and fattestmallon (twitter) have been my Harbaugh news people....[/quote]Harbaugh has an offer, he has countered and they are talking.
At the time, I had direct knowledge that Harbaugh had been to Vegas on the company jet. People were saying he had not interviewed but that is not true. Not only has he interviewed, he has discussed the GM situation. My info is that Harbaugh specifically expressed concern about Mayock.
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Willmark
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[quote=srv5490 post_id=1043094]No, he's not on a cheap contract. He was the 7th highest paid QB in 2021, and was not the 7th best. He's been paid beyond his value for most of his current contract. Next year he will be at a reasonable, but not cheap salary relative to the other QBs in the league.[/quote]Yeah, I'm not sure where cheap comes into play:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/20 ... arterback/
https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/20 ... arterback/
https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/
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Raider727
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[quote=Attyla post_id=1043097]Harbaugh has an offer, he has countered and they are talking.
At the time, I had direct knowledge that Harbaugh had been to Vegas on the company jet. People were saying he had not interviewed but that is not true. Not only has he interviewed, he has discussed the GM situation. My info is that Harbaugh specifically expressed concern about Mayock.[/quote]https://youtu.be/zMRrNY0pxfM
At the time, I had direct knowledge that Harbaugh had been to Vegas on the company jet. People were saying he had not interviewed but that is not true. Not only has he interviewed, he has discussed the GM situation. My info is that Harbaugh specifically expressed concern about Mayock.[/quote]https://youtu.be/zMRrNY0pxfM