Emo Andy Dalton after a trip to Sephora on Groundhog Day (Carr thread)

[RaiderandBulldog]

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[Opoponax50]

[quote=Spirit in Black post_id=1084573]Really the one big thing he had going for him, he doesn’t even have anymore.[/quote]Even then, the vast majority of those games involved field goals, not TDs. He did throw a TD pass against the Tits in the waning moments, so I'll give him credit for that, but he choked on the 2 pointer---bad throw with poor placement while under no pressure, which was exactly what happened in Cinci last year.

The Carr era needs to end. It's so f[raiders_icon]cking tiresome. I'd rather have the benign hope that a rebuild brings than sitting through yet another season of hopeless mediocrity, all while Carr fans stink up the fanbase.

[Attyla]

We got the VD bad
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[crowbar]

[quote=Opoponax50 post_id=1084574]Even then, the vast majority of those games involved field goals, not TDs. He did throw a TD pass against the Tits in the waning moments, so I'll give him credit for that, but he choked on the 2 pointer---bad throw with poor placement while under no pressure, which was exactly what happened in Cinci last year.

The Carr era needs to end. It's so f[raiders_icon]cking tiresome. I'd rather have the benign hope that a rebuild brings than sitting through yet another season of hopeless mediocrity, all while Carr fans stink up the fanbase.[/quote]Before Carr,Gannon was our best QB.Who was the best QB before Gannon?

It's not like good QB's grow on trees.

[Attyla]

[quote=crowbar post_id=1084582]Before Carr,Gannon was our best QB.Who was the best QB before Gannon?

It's not like good QB's grow on trees.[/quote]this is not correct. It has nothing to do with who we had, it has to do with who we could have had. We had one of the very worst QB talent evaluators in the business. There were good QBs we passed on before and after Gannon because we could not see the talent. for every Collins that we sent out there, there was a Philip Rivers waiting to be taken. But Davis refused to get someone to help him evaluate QB talent. We ended up with 2 years of Kerry Collins and 8 years worth of LT who was not good enough to be a LT when we could conceivably had Rivers. Or Rothlesburger. I know Gallery came with a lot of hype but LT, while a need, was not the move. We needed a QB of the future. But Al refused to rebuild and what a great opportunity to rebuild that year.

So, while you think QB do not grow on trees, they do get developed if your talent evaluation is good.

[Willmark]

So?

Because we had bad quarterbacks in the past we shouldn’t move on from Carr because we had bad quarterback prior.

Makes total sense in circular logic land.

[GoodTimeCharlie]

[quote=crowbar post_id=1084582]Before Carr,Gannon was our best QB.Who was the best QB before Gannon?

It's not like good QB's grow on trees.[/quote]”WHY TRY?”

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[Attyla]

[quote=Willmark post_id=1084586]So?

Because we had bad quarterbacks in the past we shouldn’t move on from Carr because we had bad quarterback prior.

Makes total sense in circular logic land.[/quote]yea I do not buy that line of reasoning. If we are ever going to make the leap, it will be because we take a few calculated chances with our roster. It is not all playcalling and it is not all the QB, but we gotta start somewhere and the right QB can change so many things on a roster so very quickly. Two years ago, we were basically of the opinion that if the Chargers came to town, they would leave losers. A QB later and now we know we are in a dog fight. Fortunes change that quickly if your talent evaluation is spot on. If McD alone were making the calls, I would be concerned. Timmay Tebow comes to mind. But we have added a guy at GM who might have the chops. We shall see.

[live.B.A.raida]

The old crop of good to great QBs are done with only Brady still hanging on (and maybe Wilson but he’s looking like he’s sliding hard)…. Raiders need their QB of the modern NFL for the present and future

[Sir Raider Duck, OMS]

[quote=Willmark post_id=1084586]So?

Because we had bad quarterbacks in the past we shouldn’t move on from Carr because we had bad quarterback prior.

Makes total sense in circular logic land.[/quote]While I've evolved to become part of the "Dump Carr in 2023" camp, this move DOES come with risks. There's no guarantee the new QB (whether it's Levis, Richardson or someone else) will even be as good as Carr, let alone better. Drafting a Franchise QB is not easy, as evidenced by the teams that year after year, throw ridiculous amounts of draft capital away to trade up and draft the next "sure fire" franchise signal-caller, most of whom are dumped in a few years. It's risky as hell.

Having said that, our 2023 QB draftee (if that's what ends up happening) will be in a great position: He'll have all kinds of weapons to throw to, multiple QB tutors in the house, and have an offensive playcaller who's good at designing offenses for rookie QBs (witness McD's work with Mac Jones a year ago).

Now it's on McD and Zieg to draft the right guy.

[Attyla]

[quote=Sir Raider Duck, OMS post_id=1084593]While I've evolved to become part of the "Dump Carr in 2023" camp, this move DOES come with risks. There's no guarantee the new QB (whether it's Levis, Richardson or someone else) will even be as good as Carr, let alone better. Drafting a Franchise QB is not easy, as evidenced by the teams that year after year, throw ridiculous amounts of draft capital away to trade up and draft the next "sure fire" franchise signal-caller, most of whom are dumped in a few years. It's risky as hell.

Having said that, our 2023 QB draftee (if that's what ends up happening) will be in a great position: He'll have all kinds of weapons to throw two, multiple QB tutors in the house, and have an offensive playcaller who's good at designing offenses for rookie QBs (witness McD's work with Mac Jones a year ago).

Now it's on McD and Zieg to draft the right guy.[/quote]with the rookie cap, it is less risky. You no longer mortgage the future if you get it wrong. I agree it can be difficult, and yet, most every year there are teams who get it right. Past performance does not ensure future results, we ditched the crap evaluators and snake oil salesmen. We do not know if our new braintrust will get it right but it is very common for a new HC/GM to go out and get their QB of the future to build around. We have missed that boat for literally decades and it is time we roll the dice and see if we can take the house.

It really boils down to this with me. Am I willing risk getting way worse to try and get way better? At this point, it really is a yes to me. I want the ring in the worst way. I got to see the other three, but at that time in my life I did not think it would come to a huge halt. I expected more were coming so I probably did not appreciate the point in time. And for the younger fans, to share that moment with them would cap off my sports fandom.

I got to see my 61 homeruns, which I never got to see when Maris did it. I got to see a miracle on ice. I got to see Ripken Jr. I got to see Ali beat Frazier. I want to see the ring again.

[Sir Raider Duck, OMS]

[quote=Attyla post_id=1084601]It really boils down to this with me. Am I willing risk getting way worse to try and get way better? At this point, it really is a yes to me. I want the ring in the worst way. I got to see the other three, but at that time in my life I did not think it would come to a huge halt. I expected more were coming so I probably did not appreciate the point in time.[/quote]I watched the Raiders win Super Bowl XVIII and never dreamed I'd be in my early 50s and still waiting on Lombardi #4. A few years later, I watched my Dodgers win the World Series over the A's and never thought they wouldn't win the big one again for the next 30+ years. I can tell you that I appreciated the Dodgers' 2020 World Championship WAY more than the one I watched when I was 17 years old.

[Jeremyturner1976]

[quote=Sir Raider Duck, OMS post_id=1084593]While I've evolved to become part of the "Dump Carr in 2023" camp, this move DOES come with risks. There's no guarantee the new QB (whether it's Levis, Richardson or someone else) will even be as good as Carr, let alone better. Drafting a Franchise QB is not easy, as evidenced by the teams that year after year, throw ridiculous amounts of draft capital away to trade up and draft the next "sure fire" franchise signal-caller, most of whom are dumped in a few years. It's risky as hell.

Having said that, our 2023 QB draftee (if that's what ends up happening) will be in a great position: He'll have all kinds of weapons to throw to, multiple QB tutors in the house, and have an offensive playcaller who's good at designing offenses for rookie QBs (witness McD's work with Mac Jones a year ago).

Now it's on McD and Zieg to draft the right guy.[/quote]To me an important part is we can only be out draft picks. If we get to a point where a midrange QB can make a run with our team and our rookie is trash tier, we can trade for one. Carr will never be more than mid range.

I guarantee you we could have Cousins, Tannehill, Garrapolo, Mayfield, etc... next season with some picks. With changing costs, we can choose to add more to the team depending on who we want.

Hell, at one point we could have had Brady.

The league has changed.

[rich72]

[quote=Attyla post_id=1084549]well, let's be honest, who is? Mac's trajectory is HOF. Hell, they might induct him into the MLB HOF as well just because he is Mac Jones.[/quote]Hes got a pretty cool name also.

[rich72]

[quote=Opoponax50 post_id=1084574]Even then, the vast majority of those games involved field goals, not TDs. He did throw a TD pass against the Tits in the waning moments, so I'll give him credit for that, but he choked on the 2 pointer---bad throw with poor placement while under no pressure, which was exactly what happened in Cinci last year.

The Carr era needs to end. It's so f[raiders_icon]cking tiresome. I'd rather have the benign hope that a rebuild brings than sitting through yet another season of hopeless mediocrity, all while Carr fans stink up the fanbase.[/quote]Im not going to give a guy props for finally getting a sense of urgency at the end of the game when he should have had it the entire game. These guys are a business, the product they are selling happens in 60 minutes of playtime. They make more money in one game than some people make in their entire lives doing hard labor.

[RI RAIDER]

Now is the time. It was not prior and it will not be in the future. We need to do it no matter what we have to give up to get our guy.