Emo Andy Dalton after a trip to Sephora on Groundhog Day (Carr thread)
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RaiderandBulldog
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Xramfan
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[quote=Chiefhater post_id=1079010]I've literally seen ( and I know you have too) Carr throw the ball away so that he can have both hands to cushion his fall.[/quote]Some of his fumbles begin before actual contact. He instinctively “flinches” in self preservation mode just before getting hit and he is genuinely oblivious to securing the ball.
He had one season where he seemed to somewhat fix this issue. I think it was Grudens first or second year but has since gone back to the dropsies.
He had one season where he seemed to somewhat fix this issue. I think it was Grudens first or second year but has since gone back to the dropsies.
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Raider727
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[quote=Willmark post_id=1079025]I think it’s a lot more than that.
There were times in 2016 where we were wondering in games why “Musgrave is playing it so conservatively?” , “why not open it up more?” Etc.
I think Musgrave understood exactly what Carr could or could not do and handled him perfectly IMO.
Since then various OC/HC have asked too much. We know what he’s good at stick with it. We know his weaknesses, avoid those wherever possible.
I think one of the single biggest things Carr could do to help is to learn when to throw the ball away. There are times he does it sure but since he doesn’t shift, roll or climb the pocket well he’s got to get rid of it sooner. I’m not sure he gets that. At least not fully.
He also tends to be best at making a quick decision and getting rid of the ball. Going through reads let alone back through a progression is not something he excels or does well. Here again I believe Musgrave had the best handle on how to get him to play best.
None of this is to say he wasn’t flawed in 2016, but the upward arc was there and the mistakes forgivable. Add to this he was playing with confidence and some swagger. It was great to see, again I’d take that.[/quote]2016 the Raiders were a top 10 rushing attack, McDaniels needs to understand that you can't rely on Carr to take over games, the Raiders need to be a more balanced team.
I don't care that we have the best receiving targets in the NFL, all that doesn't matter if the QB can't deliver the football. Also what's the point of having all these running backs if we ain't gonna use them?
There were times in 2016 where we were wondering in games why “Musgrave is playing it so conservatively?” , “why not open it up more?” Etc.
I think Musgrave understood exactly what Carr could or could not do and handled him perfectly IMO.
Since then various OC/HC have asked too much. We know what he’s good at stick with it. We know his weaknesses, avoid those wherever possible.
I think one of the single biggest things Carr could do to help is to learn when to throw the ball away. There are times he does it sure but since he doesn’t shift, roll or climb the pocket well he’s got to get rid of it sooner. I’m not sure he gets that. At least not fully.
He also tends to be best at making a quick decision and getting rid of the ball. Going through reads let alone back through a progression is not something he excels or does well. Here again I believe Musgrave had the best handle on how to get him to play best.
None of this is to say he wasn’t flawed in 2016, but the upward arc was there and the mistakes forgivable. Add to this he was playing with confidence and some swagger. It was great to see, again I’d take that.[/quote]2016 the Raiders were a top 10 rushing attack, McDaniels needs to understand that you can't rely on Carr to take over games, the Raiders need to be a more balanced team.
I don't care that we have the best receiving targets in the NFL, all that doesn't matter if the QB can't deliver the football. Also what's the point of having all these running backs if we ain't gonna use them?
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Opoponax50
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[quote=Raiders Baby post_id=1079028]Yes and no.
Yes: I would take 2016 Carr over every other Carr we’ve seen since. With the current team, nothing gives us a better chance to win than getting that version of Carr. But even if we did, I still think it’s a long shot that we’d do anything, which brings me to…
No: 2016 Carr was a solid player, but if that’s his ceiling then I just can’t imagine us winning the SB. We have to beat 4 good teams in a row to do it, and we just saw him get jumpy throwing to wide open targets in his first game, an important one for division standings against a good team. I just don’t think Carr has ice in his veins; he doesn’t have that killer instinct in the big moment. That alone makes me think we should replace him next time there’s a viable opportunity[/quote]Between Mahomes, Herbert, and Wilson, we would really need to draft a HOF level QB---and by any metric, the chances of that are incredibly slim.
I've said it before, but I'll say it again: we lost the QB war, but our organization/Mark Davis refuses to acknowledge it.
The alternative model, and the most viable one, is a defense oriented approach supported by a strong running game on offense, with a competent QB that doesn't make a lot of mistakes.
Mahomes and Herbert aren't going anywhere. We'll see how Wilson plays out with the Donks, but that still leaves two elite QBs in our division regardless of how Wilson does.
I still say we should've traded Carr and Waller when we could've gotten good draft picks for them and gone about building a top tier D, but that ship sailed off into another dimension and now we have another year of attempting to win by scoring points with Carr at the helm.
Yes: I would take 2016 Carr over every other Carr we’ve seen since. With the current team, nothing gives us a better chance to win than getting that version of Carr. But even if we did, I still think it’s a long shot that we’d do anything, which brings me to…
No: 2016 Carr was a solid player, but if that’s his ceiling then I just can’t imagine us winning the SB. We have to beat 4 good teams in a row to do it, and we just saw him get jumpy throwing to wide open targets in his first game, an important one for division standings against a good team. I just don’t think Carr has ice in his veins; he doesn’t have that killer instinct in the big moment. That alone makes me think we should replace him next time there’s a viable opportunity[/quote]Between Mahomes, Herbert, and Wilson, we would really need to draft a HOF level QB---and by any metric, the chances of that are incredibly slim.
I've said it before, but I'll say it again: we lost the QB war, but our organization/Mark Davis refuses to acknowledge it.
The alternative model, and the most viable one, is a defense oriented approach supported by a strong running game on offense, with a competent QB that doesn't make a lot of mistakes.
Mahomes and Herbert aren't going anywhere. We'll see how Wilson plays out with the Donks, but that still leaves two elite QBs in our division regardless of how Wilson does.
I still say we should've traded Carr and Waller when we could've gotten good draft picks for them and gone about building a top tier D, but that ship sailed off into another dimension and now we have another year of attempting to win by scoring points with Carr at the helm.
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Raiders Baby
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[quote=Opoponax50 post_id=1079035]Between Mahomes, Herbert, and Wilson, we would really need to draft a HOF level QB---and by any metric, the chances of that are incredibly slim.
I've said it before, but I'll say it again: we lost the QB war, but our organization/Mark Davis refuses to acknowledge it.
The alternative model, and the most viable one, is a defense oriented approach supported by a strong running game on offense, with a competent QB that doesn't make a lot of mistakes.
Mahomes and Herbert aren't going anywhere. We'll see how Wilson plays out with the Donks, but that still leaves two elite QBs in our division regardless of how Wilson does.
I still say we should've traded Carr and Waller when we could've gotten good draft picks for them and gone about building a top tier D, but that ship sailed off into another dimension and now we have another year of attempting to win by scoring points with Carr at the helm.[/quote]Yup, I think this is a solid assessment. Realistically, we are probably going to continue to try to win with Carr. Definitely for this year, and my guess is we will see the ‘3 Year Plan’ through, unless it gets really ugly.
Departing from reality and just speaking in broad strokes strategy, I think your idea and the idea of looking for a successful rookie are compatible. Get rid of the cap dollars associated with Carr and replace with a rookie contract. It’s true the rookie might suck, but if we draft well we might get a guy who is basically as productive as Carr day 1. Hell, Mac Jones almost did it last year and I basically view him as Kirk Cousins. If we can get that amount of production with $20m+ free for a great defense, that’s a good start.
But by drafting a QB (instead of signing a dependable vet) we are giving ourselves a chance to get an elite player. Is it a guarantee? Far from it. Hard to find those guys. But as long as the guy we draft isn’t atrocious, we’ve come out net ahead because the team as a whole is better. If we DO find one of those dudes, lock him up quickly! They are hard to find. Anything short of that, let them hit free agency and draft another QB. Don’t spend $40m on a guy like Carr. I honestly think the ‘rinse and repeat’ model is going to become more popular. Giving Kyler, Carr, Cousins, etc elite $$ has proven to be crippling for team building, and I think a smart GM will recognize that. Why not us? Let’s be ahead of the curve for once? One can dream
I've said it before, but I'll say it again: we lost the QB war, but our organization/Mark Davis refuses to acknowledge it.
The alternative model, and the most viable one, is a defense oriented approach supported by a strong running game on offense, with a competent QB that doesn't make a lot of mistakes.
Mahomes and Herbert aren't going anywhere. We'll see how Wilson plays out with the Donks, but that still leaves two elite QBs in our division regardless of how Wilson does.
I still say we should've traded Carr and Waller when we could've gotten good draft picks for them and gone about building a top tier D, but that ship sailed off into another dimension and now we have another year of attempting to win by scoring points with Carr at the helm.[/quote]Yup, I think this is a solid assessment. Realistically, we are probably going to continue to try to win with Carr. Definitely for this year, and my guess is we will see the ‘3 Year Plan’ through, unless it gets really ugly.
Departing from reality and just speaking in broad strokes strategy, I think your idea and the idea of looking for a successful rookie are compatible. Get rid of the cap dollars associated with Carr and replace with a rookie contract. It’s true the rookie might suck, but if we draft well we might get a guy who is basically as productive as Carr day 1. Hell, Mac Jones almost did it last year and I basically view him as Kirk Cousins. If we can get that amount of production with $20m+ free for a great defense, that’s a good start.
But by drafting a QB (instead of signing a dependable vet) we are giving ourselves a chance to get an elite player. Is it a guarantee? Far from it. Hard to find those guys. But as long as the guy we draft isn’t atrocious, we’ve come out net ahead because the team as a whole is better. If we DO find one of those dudes, lock him up quickly! They are hard to find. Anything short of that, let them hit free agency and draft another QB. Don’t spend $40m on a guy like Carr. I honestly think the ‘rinse and repeat’ model is going to become more popular. Giving Kyler, Carr, Cousins, etc elite $$ has proven to be crippling for team building, and I think a smart GM will recognize that. Why not us? Let’s be ahead of the curve for once? One can dream
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Jeremyturner1976
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I really need to see some great Raider Football. These next three games should be like reading a thermostat, but our temperature in December is what matters most.
The ability to blow the top off of some teams keeps this exciting. Both the Chargers and the Chiefs look beatable and we still might sneak one of those. I hope Denver is on lock like I believe it is.
The ability to blow the top off of some teams keeps this exciting. Both the Chargers and the Chiefs look beatable and we still might sneak one of those. I hope Denver is on lock like I believe it is.
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Opoponax50
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[quote=Jeremyturner1976 post_id=1079041]I really need to see some great Raider Football. These next three games should be like reading a thermostat, but our temperature in December is what matters most.
The ability to blow the top off of some teams keeps this exciting. Both the Chargers and the Chiefs look beatable and we still might sneak one of those. I hope Denver is on lock like I believe it is.[/quote]Denver should've won that game against going away. Their RBs fumbled twice on the goal line. No team can leave 14 points on the field and expect to win. The verdict is definitely still out on Wilson, but he has a history of playing well. IOW, I still think we have the 4th best QB in the division.
The ability to blow the top off of some teams keeps this exciting. Both the Chargers and the Chiefs look beatable and we still might sneak one of those. I hope Denver is on lock like I believe it is.[/quote]Denver should've won that game against going away. Their RBs fumbled twice on the goal line. No team can leave 14 points on the field and expect to win. The verdict is definitely still out on Wilson, but he has a history of playing well. IOW, I still think we have the 4th best QB in the division.
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raiders93
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[quote=Opoponax50 post_id=1079049]Denver should've won that game against going away. Their RBs fumbled twice on the goal line. No team can leave 14 points on the field and expect to win. The verdict is definitely still out on Wilson, but he has a history of playing well. IOW, I still think we have the 4th best QB in the division.[/quote]Denver definitely gave that game away but I’d also say as a team (Wilson included) I wasn’t impressed. While they fumbled twice on the goal line Wilson also got away with a lot of ugly throws including two that were dropped by defenders. Their much hyped defence also didn’t look anything special.
Whether that’s game 1 rust or not - time will tell. At least as of now what I’d say is they didn’t look in the same tier as KC or LA.
Whether that’s game 1 rust or not - time will tell. At least as of now what I’d say is they didn’t look in the same tier as KC or LA.
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pfish57
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[quote=Raider727 post_id=1079052]https://twitter.com/GenXzeroX/status/15 ... LvTL4jYcvQ
Carr looks sad[/quote] He is sad...I
every night he hangs up his cleats & moves his BS to the pulpit!!
Carr looks sad[/quote] He is sad...I
every night he hangs up his cleats & moves his BS to the pulpit!!-
Attyla
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I would be excited to get out of LA after the stink bomb he left on that field.
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crowbar
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Cartilage is like rubber isn't it? Probably a tear and not fractured.
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Raiders Baby
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[quote=Opoponax50 post_id=1079049]Denver should've won that game against going away. Their RBs fumbled twice on the goal line. No team can leave 14 points on the field and expect to win. The verdict is definitely still out on Wilson, but he has a history of playing well. IOW, I still think we have the 4th best QB in the division.[/quote]Carr should write the phrase “no team can leave 14+ points on the field and expect to win” on the blackboard 100x
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pfish57
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[quote=Raiders Baby post_id=1079075]Carr should write the phrase “no team can leave 14+ points on the field and expect to win” on the blackboard 100x[/quote] I'm pretty sure he isn't the most popular guy in the facility this week & JM is riding his pussy ass!!!