Emo Andy Dalton after a trip to Sephora on Groundhog Day (Carr thread)

[RaiderandBulldog]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Raiders/stat ... 3878636548

[Attyla]

[quote=Raider727 post_id=1072880]Exactly! Carr doesn't have an excuse anymore as to why he isn't throwing 35 or more touchdowns.[/quote]you might have missed something in my question

[Raider727]

[quote=Attyla post_id=1072884]you might have missed something in my question[/quote]That 3 great players is better than 2, wow

[Attyla]

[quote=Raider727 post_id=1072889]That 3 great players is better than 2, wow[/quote]yea, you achieved your "duh" moment of the hour

[Willmark]

[quote=FlyBono24 post_id=1072866]Last year Carr fumbled 13 times and recovered 5 of them (so 8 lost fumbles).... it doesn't say if an OL or someone else on the team recovered them.

Everyone's favorite QB on this thread Mahomes had 9 fumbles and 2 recovered (so 7 lost fumbles).... HUUUUUUGE difference there eh?? [/quote]I encourage to go look up the stats of Derek’s career for fumbles and get back to us.

[Attyla]

[quote=Willmark post_id=1072898]I encourage to go look up the stats of Derek’s career for fumbles and get back to us.[/quote]and, last year Mahomes less fumbles, more yards and more TDs

that would be a HUUUUGE difference, no?

[Opoponax50]

[quote=Raider727 post_id=1072880]Exactly! Carr doesn't have an excuse anymore as to why he isn't throwing 35 or more touchdowns.[/quote]Fear not. The excuses are already being made. The O-line, new coaching staff, first year in the system.

I think the O-line will be adequate enough to allow Carr to put up numbers that any top 5 QB would. Joe Burrow made it happen with a group of oversized Weeble-Wobbles in front of him. Playmaking QBs make things happen by moving around the pocket and/or throwing darts under pressure. So Carr is going to have to elevate his game.

As for having to learn a new system, well, it took him two full seasons and 3 offseasons to fully grasp Gruden's system, so history isn't on his side going forward.

[signal]

I'm sorry but if anyone is suggesting Carr is elite based upon what he has done in his career thus far, they are sadly mistaken.

The best any Carr fan can hope for is to argue that he is just above average and not the main reason for the Raiders lack of success. To argue anything more than this is silly.

The vast amount of stats demonstrate that he is average to just above average. Nothing more and well sometimes less.

If however you can't stand it when someone points out his weaknesses...because trust me he has them, then I suggest that instead of getting all upset in a frenzy, that you realize that he is just a human like the rest of us and has many flaws and in the professional game of football he simply is not one of the best.

Hell, even if we had Brady or Mahommes or anyone else at QB...it would be fine to point out their weaknesses and mistakes at times, because well...we ALL make them. WHY must some people defend him no matter what the evidence? Hero worship is something that you have to grow out of when you become an adult. Everyone is flawed and everyone deserves criticism from time to time. It seems like some almost take it personally when Carr receives any level of criticism on this forum.

Never understood it and probably never will.

[HOLYRAIDER]

[quote=Jeremyturner1976 post_id=1072858]Yet noone has lost more since the turn of the century in 8 years of NFL play.

[/quote] That what happens when you play with the worst defense ever !

[Willmark]

[quote=Raider727 post_id=1072873]I'd love to see Carr throw 5,000 yards and 50 tds this season, he has the receivers to do it. I'll take Adams, Renfrow and Waller over Kelce and Hill any day...[/quote]I'd love to see it too.

While anything is possible it would be a massive increase from his previous high of 32 in 2015. He usually averages somewhere between 23-24 per season.

18 more than that? And while anything is possible, I don't think its probable.

[srv5490]

[quote=HOLYRAIDER post_id=1072415] Why thank you for confirming my proven facts.

Lets expand it a little more. Lets look at the won/loss record of those teams.

- Jaguars : 36-93 = won 28%
- Falcons : 60-69 = won 46%
- Browns : 43-85-1 = won 34%
- Jets : 41-88 = won 32%
- Raiders : 57-70 = won 45% (games Carr played )

Well looky there ! Carr wins more games with a worst defense ( THE WORST ! ) then 3 of the 4 other teams ( BY A WIDE MARGIN ! ) , and only 1% less than a team with a much better defense.

Just more proof showing Carr to be AN ELITE QB ! The numbers and the record do not lie.

Chew on that Carr haters. [/quote]This seems to be remarkably similar in terms of substance and style to a recently suspended user:

[quote=RAIDERS1967 post_id=1067643]SOURCE ? ... go look in any NFL STAT book ...i already did my homework.

Carr's DEFENSE RANK :
2014 = 32
2015 = 22
2016 = 20
2017 = 20
2018 = 32
2019 = 24
2020 = 30
2021 = 26

... that equals on average for his career a 26th ranked defense

NO other QB or TEAM as had a WORST defense since 2014 ... go look it up

Here is another perspective :

From 2014 to 2021 , there have been 56 teams with a defense ranked 26th to 32nd ... [ that's HALF of Carr's career ! ]

ONLY 4 teams with that bad of a defense have posted a NON-LOSING record ...
1] 2016 Falcons 11-5
2] 2020 CARR'S RAIDERS 8-8
3] 2021 Chargers 9-8
4] 2021 CARR'S RAIDERS 10-7

CARR has done this TWICE , what 50 other QB's have NEVER done , and what 2 QB's have done ONCE !

Let take it another step further :

The record of the OTHER 52 QB's with this garbage 26th to 32nd DEFENSE is :
248W - 587L - 3T ...that is a winning pct of .298 ...just say 30%

Carr with that same garbage defense is : 25W - 40L - 0T ... that is a winning pct of .385 ...just say 39%

*** So Carr wins almost 10% MORE games THAN ALL 52 OTHER QB'S that are saddled WITH THE SAME GARBAGE DEFENSE !!!

Lets take it another step !

From 2014 to 2021 , there have been 48 teams with a defense ranked 20th to 25th ... [ the other HALF of Carr's career ! ]

ONLY 10 teams with that bad of a defense have posted a WINNING record...
...not going to list them to save space , but NO QB did it TWICE , and 2016 CARR'S RAIDERS is one of the ten !

The record of the OTHER 44 QB's with this garbage 20th to 25th defense is : 297W - 425L - 4T ... that is a winning pct of .412 ...just say 41%

Carr with that same garbage defense is : 32W - 30L - 0T ...that is a winning pct of .516 ...just say 52%

*** So Carr wins 11% MORE games THAN ALL 44 OTHER QB's that are saddled with THE SAME GARBAGE DEFENSE !!! - - - AND HE HAS A WINNING f[raiders_icon]cking RECORD !!! WHICH NO ONE ELSE HAS !!!

### THAT IS THE GREATNESS OF CARR[/quote]Coincidence? Probaly not.

[Jeremyturner1976]

[quote=HOLYRAIDER post_id=1072951] That what happens when you play with the worst defense ever ![/quote]I believe the run game is what got us those wins, but maybe it was special teams or coaching. Hell, perhaps it was the defense coming in clutch at the right times.

I definitely don't believe your weak argument attributing team stats to Carr is any stronger than mine.

Carr is above average (Finally), in a contract with three back to back prove it years, and has a record of choking in playoff hunts and playoff games. He has finally improved his game from the dumpster fires of '17-'19 though, and I hope he continues to improve but he has never been elite. He is a lesser Kirk Cousins.

[raiders93]

[quote=signal post_id=1072940]I'm sorry but if anyone is suggesting Carr is elite based upon what he has done in his career thus far, they are sadly mistaken.

The best any Carr fan can hope for is to argue that he is just above average and not the main reason for the Raiders lack of success. To argue anything more than this is silly.

The vast amount of stats demonstrate that he is average to just above average. Nothing more and well sometimes less.

If however you can't stand it when someone points out his weaknesses...because trust me he has them, then I suggest that instead of getting all upset in a frenzy, that you realize that he is just a human like the rest of us and has many flaws and in the professional game of football he simply is not one of the best.

Hell, even if we had Brady or Mahommes or anyone else at QB...it would be fine to point out their weaknesses and mistakes at times, because well...we ALL make them. WHY must some people defend him no matter what the evidence? Hero worship is something that you have to grow out of when you become an adult. Everyone is flawed and everyone deserves criticism from time to time. It seems like some almost take it personally when Carr receives any level of criticism on this forum.

Never understood it and probably never will.[/quote]To the extent that carr can intrinsically control and improve on his well documented weaknesses himself (TD’s, RZ, fumbles) … 9 years in you’d think it’s limited. But to the extent that surroundings can effect those things and make a QB look better or worse - they certainly can and it’s often hard to tell the difference.

And I think that’s really the core of the Carr debate. Every QB has strengths and weaknesses. If you’re in an environment that mostly minimizes or hides a guys weaknesses, they play well and the offence is good - do those weaknesses effect anything?

Assuming for some reason the environment changes (lose some weapons, new playcaller, etc…) and those weaknesses become noticeable and problematic… is it time for a new QB or do you just need to recreate the environment that hid them and maximizes their strengths? Did your QB look better than they were because the environment was right… or worse than they were because they had poor surroundings?

At least under Gruden a lot of his weaknesses were put on display. Perhaps just with the personnel they were inevitably going to be on display. you don’t have a great o-line, your system basically does nothing to design time in the pocket, you don’t have weapons that are typically running open and your QB is not a guy that gets better as you ask him to move to extend plays.

That’s what I hope we’ll find out this year. With a playcaller/system that designs space and reduces how often Carr needs to hang in the pocket/extend plays… and a plethora of weapons - can you get the best out of carrs skill set to the point of having a really potent offence.

[tactician]

Josh McD is going to find out what we already know. Derek Carr-nice guy, average quarterback. Great arm, but cant always put it to use because he does not have natural anticipatory skills. Doesn't trust his eyes so he settles for check downs. Also, he's not much of a scrambler and his pocket presence isn't that great.

[Raider727]

Matthew Stafford won the Superbowl with a 15th ranked defense in his 1st season under Sean Mcvay.

That means Carr has to win the Superbowl if the defense is ranked 15th or better in 2022, since Carr is compared to Stafford by Carr excuse makers.

[KillerRaider30]

[quote=Raider727 post_id=1073018]Matthew Stafford won the Superbowl with a 15th ranked defense in his 1st season under Sean Mcvay.

That means Carr has to win the Superbowl if the defense is ranked 15th or better in 2022, since Carr is compared to Stafford by Carr excuse makers.[/quote]For the 5 millionth time Stafford didn't win the Super Bowl, the Rams did. Good God all mighty