Emo Andy Dalton after a trip to Sephora on Groundhog Day (Carr thread)
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RaiderandBulldog
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rich72
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[quote=KillerRaider30 post_id=1072005]That drive was a game winning FG if Jackson doesn't drop the ball CARR hit him in the HANDS with earlier for a TD. Carr did enough to win that game.[/quote]"Laces out DAN!"
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GoodTimeCharlie
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[quote=Ismail86 post_id=1072018]Again, for the 4,000th time, I'm not a Carr guy. I have games where I hate him and games where I love him. I'm all for improving the QB position. All I'm saying is that there's a lot of players that speak very highly of him. Much more so than the players that speak negatively on him. Spin that to fit the narrative how you will but it's true. I also think that their opinion is more valid than anyone on page 504 of the "ABC" thread. Myself included.[/quote]Then the 2nd paragraph would be more germane to the conversation. Where I expressed with a few extreme examples how lacking in truthful substance sound-bites given by professional athletes in any public forum can be. In fact I imagine a lot of posts made here would lose their “piss’n’vinegar” if we all had to use our real names and go through a verification process. Players who speak their mind without recourse are so few and far between that they can end up obtaining fame just by the act of doing so. Think: Chris Simms NFL & Charles Barkley NBA. In other words, an opinion expressed here at “RF” (including my own), and the opinion from Joe Blow of the Dallas Cowboys have equal merit. Though I’d say the opinions made here are far more honestly given. And last, but not least, at the end of the day, all of our opinions, be it Chris Simms, Charles Barkley, Joe Blow of the Dallas Cowboys, Tom, Dick, and Harry, and all of us here at “RF” (including my own), are all equally worth about 2 handfuls of dogshit.
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GoodTimeCharlie
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[quote=GoodTimeCharlie post_id=1071925]What people refuse to recognize is it doesn’t matter the coaching, it doesn’t matter the system, it doesn’t matter the defense, it doesn’t matter the offensive line, running backs, wide receivers, tight ends, HE IS EXACTLY the same guy that he’s always been…
“Average height and size for position. … Smallish hands could be problems in cold or inclement weather. … Played in wide-open offense the past two seasons and was almost exclusively in shotgun. … Much of Fresno State’s offense consisted of bubble screens and very short passes. … Would’ve liked to see more deep throws. … Needs to handle cluttered pocket better. … Struggles throwing under pressure. … Sees the rush at times, instead of keeping eyes downfield.”
Weaknesses:
• Anxiety issues
• Can get flustered by a pass rush
• Lacks mobility
• Not a running threat
• Smaller hands
“Against good defenses, Carr could get flustered by a heavy pass rush. That is a legitimate concern considering that problem is what led to his older brother being a bust. Derek Carr beat up on weak competition and will need to get better in his ability to handle pressure. Sources have said that Carr has some anxiety issues that will have to be ironed out with his NFL coaching staff. Those could be seen in the fourth quarter against San Jose State and the bowl game against USC.”
“Most importantly, Carr needs to learn to make sure his mechanics are not completely ruined by pressure in the pocket. His footwork, and consequently his accuracy, were too often adversely affected by teams bringing the blitz. Look no further than the USC game at the end of his senior season to see the effects pressure had on his game.”
Negatives:
•Footwork needs improvement; he often retreats from pressure and throws off his back foot. Needs to step into his throws more consistently.
•Poor decision-making under duress.
•Average pocket presence with wavering poise and unrefined pocket movement.
•Stares down his intended target. He needs to improve eye discipline.
•Too often appears to be flustered by pressure. Can be quick to flee the pocket.
•Inconsistent mechanics, has a tendency to lock his lower half and throw with his arm alone.
•Struggles when his receivers’ routes are disrupted.
•Often late to recognize the blitz.
•Operated almost exclusively out of shotgun with four or five receiver sets.
•Not an anticipatory thrower.
•Will not hurt defenses on the ground. He has enough mobility to get by but is not much of a running threat.
•Hangs his receivers out to dry at times.
•Does not appear to see the field very well, throwing into double-teams occasionally.
•Struggled with top competition. College career ended on a lousy note as he was erratic vs. USC in the Las Vegas Bowl.
Same f[raiders_icon]cking dude. And now here we go into Year 9, and we’ll spend another year listening to the panoply of excuses people throw around to deflect criticism away from po po Dewek Carr.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. And when the subject is Derek Carr, “The definition of stupidity…” works just as well.[/quote][quote=KennyPowers post_id=1071926]
2013 USC HAD
Leonard Williams 1st round DL
Nelson Agholor 1st round WR
Sua Ctravens 2nd round S
Marquise Lee 2nd round WR
Robert Woods 2nd round WR
TJ McDonald 3rd round DB
Marcus Martin 3rd round OL
Matt Barely 4th round QB
Khlhed Holmes 4th Round OL
Devon Kennard 4ht round LB
Josh Shaw 4th round. LB
Javoris Allen 4th round RB
Hayes Pullara 7th round LB
Fresno State
Derek Carr 2nd round
Devonte Adams 2nd round
Tyler Davison 5th round
Derron Smith 7th round
Not quite the same talent level.[/quote]So out of that post, despite 99.9% of it being just as apt a description of Carr’s play in 2014 as it is heading into Year 9, what you are able to see and assimilate is the words in red.
Well thank goodness Carr doesn’t have to play against any of those good college players anymore right? He’s in the pros now. And all those pesky good college ball players are…um…are… oh…
“Average height and size for position. … Smallish hands could be problems in cold or inclement weather. … Played in wide-open offense the past two seasons and was almost exclusively in shotgun. … Much of Fresno State’s offense consisted of bubble screens and very short passes. … Would’ve liked to see more deep throws. … Needs to handle cluttered pocket better. … Struggles throwing under pressure. … Sees the rush at times, instead of keeping eyes downfield.”
Weaknesses:
• Anxiety issues
• Can get flustered by a pass rush
• Lacks mobility
• Not a running threat
• Smaller hands
“Against good defenses, Carr could get flustered by a heavy pass rush. That is a legitimate concern considering that problem is what led to his older brother being a bust. Derek Carr beat up on weak competition and will need to get better in his ability to handle pressure. Sources have said that Carr has some anxiety issues that will have to be ironed out with his NFL coaching staff. Those could be seen in the fourth quarter against San Jose State and the bowl game against USC.”
“Most importantly, Carr needs to learn to make sure his mechanics are not completely ruined by pressure in the pocket. His footwork, and consequently his accuracy, were too often adversely affected by teams bringing the blitz. Look no further than the USC game at the end of his senior season to see the effects pressure had on his game.”
Negatives:
•Footwork needs improvement; he often retreats from pressure and throws off his back foot. Needs to step into his throws more consistently.
•Poor decision-making under duress.
•Average pocket presence with wavering poise and unrefined pocket movement.
•Stares down his intended target. He needs to improve eye discipline.
•Too often appears to be flustered by pressure. Can be quick to flee the pocket.
•Inconsistent mechanics, has a tendency to lock his lower half and throw with his arm alone.
•Struggles when his receivers’ routes are disrupted.
•Often late to recognize the blitz.
•Operated almost exclusively out of shotgun with four or five receiver sets.
•Not an anticipatory thrower.
•Will not hurt defenses on the ground. He has enough mobility to get by but is not much of a running threat.
•Hangs his receivers out to dry at times.
•Does not appear to see the field very well, throwing into double-teams occasionally.
•Struggled with top competition. College career ended on a lousy note as he was erratic vs. USC in the Las Vegas Bowl.
Same f[raiders_icon]cking dude. And now here we go into Year 9, and we’ll spend another year listening to the panoply of excuses people throw around to deflect criticism away from po po Dewek Carr.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. And when the subject is Derek Carr, “The definition of stupidity…” works just as well.[/quote][quote=KennyPowers post_id=1071926]
2013 USC HAD
Leonard Williams 1st round DL
Nelson Agholor 1st round WR
Sua Ctravens 2nd round S
Marquise Lee 2nd round WR
Robert Woods 2nd round WR
TJ McDonald 3rd round DB
Marcus Martin 3rd round OL
Matt Barely 4th round QB
Khlhed Holmes 4th Round OL
Devon Kennard 4ht round LB
Josh Shaw 4th round. LB
Javoris Allen 4th round RB
Hayes Pullara 7th round LB
Fresno State
Derek Carr 2nd round
Devonte Adams 2nd round
Tyler Davison 5th round
Derron Smith 7th round
Not quite the same talent level.[/quote]So out of that post, despite 99.9% of it being just as apt a description of Carr’s play in 2014 as it is heading into Year 9, what you are able to see and assimilate is the words in red.
Well thank goodness Carr doesn’t have to play against any of those good college players anymore right? He’s in the pros now. And all those pesky good college ball players are…um…are… oh…
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raiders93
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[quote=Raiders Baby post_id=1071988]Let’s say we had a defense that held teams to fewer than 20 per game on average, an excellent defense. Carr could be expected to go 10-7 if his current record held constant. Is that good enough? I don’t think so, not with a great defense — I’d expect closer to 12 games, which is right in line with the league average.
Football is not played in a vacuum and that rudimentary analysis ignores real game situationals (a great defense would likely generate points and great field position), so that .600 average may not translate directly.
But I think we can all agree that if we have an excellent defense we should expect to win more than 10 games, no? Just because we would win more with a better defense doesn’t mean that Carr wouldn’t still be a liability. He needs to step up this season, thankfully it’s only a few more weeks until he shows us what he’s got (again)[/quote]I agree with many of Carr critiques. In fact I think some of them are pretty much undeniable. My point was really directed at the Dubow revelation that defence doesn’t matter for Carr since he’ll find ways to score less when they do play well. But yea with a good D I’d expect likely 10 or more wins a year. Without even looking at the offences, here’s how the top 10 defences each year have done over the last 8 years (80 team sample).
Avg wins per season: 10.2
Winning %: 64%
Teams w double digit wins: 48/80 (60%)
Teams 0.500 or better: 71/80 (89%)
Teams worse than 0.500: 9/80 (11%)
The 9 teams (and their QB) that had a top 10 defence and a losing record (chronologically):
1. 2014 browns -9th D -7-9 (hoyer/Manziel)
2. 2016 bengals - 8th D - 6-10 (Dalton)
3. 2017 Bears - 9th D - 5-11 (Mitch/glennon)
4. 2018 Jags - 5th D - 5-11 (bortles/Kessler)
5. 2019 Broncos -10th D - 7-9(flacco/allen/lock)
6. 2020 WFT - 4th D - 7-9 (smith/Haskins/allen)
7. 2020 Pats - 7th D - 7-9 (Newton/hoyer)
8. 2020 Giants - 9th D - 6-10 (Jones/McCoy)
9. 2021 Broncos - 3rd D - 7-10 (teddy/lock)
Now the results forThe bottom 10 defences each season since 2014:
Wins per season: 5.2
Winning %: 32%
Teams w double digit wins: 6/80 (7.5%)
Teams over 0.500: 9/80 (11%)
Teams under .500: 71/80 (89%)
Basically over the past 8 years top 10 defences have averaged twice as many wins per season as bottom 10 defences. We’ve spent 5/8 of those years with a bottom 10 defence. While a top 10 defence doesn’t necessarily make Carr fumble less or score more in the RZ… you can pretty safely assume any QB would’ve won significantly more games over a period of time if you swapped out a bottom 10 defence for a top 10 one.
Football is not played in a vacuum and that rudimentary analysis ignores real game situationals (a great defense would likely generate points and great field position), so that .600 average may not translate directly.
But I think we can all agree that if we have an excellent defense we should expect to win more than 10 games, no? Just because we would win more with a better defense doesn’t mean that Carr wouldn’t still be a liability. He needs to step up this season, thankfully it’s only a few more weeks until he shows us what he’s got (again)[/quote]I agree with many of Carr critiques. In fact I think some of them are pretty much undeniable. My point was really directed at the Dubow revelation that defence doesn’t matter for Carr since he’ll find ways to score less when they do play well. But yea with a good D I’d expect likely 10 or more wins a year. Without even looking at the offences, here’s how the top 10 defences each year have done over the last 8 years (80 team sample).
Avg wins per season: 10.2
Winning %: 64%
Teams w double digit wins: 48/80 (60%)
Teams 0.500 or better: 71/80 (89%)
Teams worse than 0.500: 9/80 (11%)
The 9 teams (and their QB) that had a top 10 defence and a losing record (chronologically):
1. 2014 browns -9th D -7-9 (hoyer/Manziel)
2. 2016 bengals - 8th D - 6-10 (Dalton)
3. 2017 Bears - 9th D - 5-11 (Mitch/glennon)
4. 2018 Jags - 5th D - 5-11 (bortles/Kessler)
5. 2019 Broncos -10th D - 7-9(flacco/allen/lock)
6. 2020 WFT - 4th D - 7-9 (smith/Haskins/allen)
7. 2020 Pats - 7th D - 7-9 (Newton/hoyer)
8. 2020 Giants - 9th D - 6-10 (Jones/McCoy)
9. 2021 Broncos - 3rd D - 7-10 (teddy/lock)
Now the results forThe bottom 10 defences each season since 2014:
Wins per season: 5.2
Winning %: 32%
Teams w double digit wins: 6/80 (7.5%)
Teams over 0.500: 9/80 (11%)
Teams under .500: 71/80 (89%)
Basically over the past 8 years top 10 defences have averaged twice as many wins per season as bottom 10 defences. We’ve spent 5/8 of those years with a bottom 10 defence. While a top 10 defence doesn’t necessarily make Carr fumble less or score more in the RZ… you can pretty safely assume any QB would’ve won significantly more games over a period of time if you swapped out a bottom 10 defence for a top 10 one.
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HOLYRAIDER
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[quote=KennyPowers post_id=1071919]What everyone is failing to recognize is that the defense held opponents to under 20 points only 21 times in his 8 seasons.[/quote] Its 27 times ... Carr is 17-10 (.630) ... 5-1 (.833) last 2 years ... 15-5 (.750) since 2016.
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HOLYRAIDER
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[quote=KennyPowers post_id=1071934] It's a joke of a sample size and all it proves is how bad the teams were. Seasons are 10 1/2 games now. Over two seasons would be at least 32 games. Still haven't found a team that had less than 21 games during that 8 year span. How about any 8 year span in the history of the NFL? Find 1 team
Just for comparison sake Alex Smith started 167 times in his career. His defense let up less then 20 points 85 times. 51%
Carr started 127 games and his defense 21 times. 16.5%
I think a better sample size was 2016 and last season, when we had a solid team. 5-0 when defense let up under 20 in 2016, last year he was 4-2. So 9-2 on two average teams. Thats an 82% winning percentage.[/quote] ...get your numbers right
2016 : 3-0
17-10 Titans
33-16 Jaguars
19-16 Chargers
2021 : 3-1
26-17 Steelers
15-17 Redskins
16-14 Browns
17-13 Broncos
Carr 6-1 (.857) ...those are elite numbers...case closed
Just for comparison sake Alex Smith started 167 times in his career. His defense let up less then 20 points 85 times. 51%
Carr started 127 games and his defense 21 times. 16.5%
I think a better sample size was 2016 and last season, when we had a solid team. 5-0 when defense let up under 20 in 2016, last year he was 4-2. So 9-2 on two average teams. Thats an 82% winning percentage.[/quote] ...get your numbers right
2016 : 3-0
17-10 Titans
33-16 Jaguars
19-16 Chargers
2021 : 3-1
26-17 Steelers
15-17 Redskins
16-14 Browns
17-13 Broncos
Carr 6-1 (.857) ...those are elite numbers...case closed
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HOLYRAIDER
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[quote=crowbar post_id=1071995]Our first game is against the Chargers with Bosa & Mack in LA.We need help fast.
Double team Mack & Miller will hopefully handle Bosa.[/quote] I could see this HC playing double TE's and fullback the whole game and running the ball 60+ times right down their f[raiders_icon]cking throat. Bosa and Mack's pass run eliminated.
Double team Mack & Miller will hopefully handle Bosa.[/quote] I could see this HC playing double TE's and fullback the whole game and running the ball 60+ times right down their f[raiders_icon]cking throat. Bosa and Mack's pass run eliminated.
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HOLYRAIDER
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[quote=Attyla post_id=1072002]I did "watch out baby" as he threw the ball into triple coverage 2 yards shy of the endzone.[/quote] A pass to a wide receiver that was so good he's now on another team. And an offense play caller that had your two best receivers run out routes to the five yards lines.
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HOLYRAIDER
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[quote=raiders93 post_id=1072073]I agree with many of Carr critiques. In fact I think some of them are pretty much undeniable. My point was really directed at the Dubow revelation that defence doesn’t matter for Carr since he’ll find ways to score less when they do play well. But yea with a good D I’d expect likely 10 or more wins a year. Without even looking at the offences, here’s how the top 10 defences each year have done over the last 8 years (80 team sample).
Avg wins per season: 10.2
Winning %: 64%
Teams w double digit wins: 48/80 (60%)
Teams 0.500 or better: 71/80 (89%)
Teams worse than 0.500: 9/80 (11%)
The 9 teams (and their QB) that had a top 10 defence and a losing record (chronologically):
1. 2014 browns -9th D -7-9 (hoyer/Manziel)
2. 2016 bengals - 8th D - 6-10 (Dalton)
3. 2017 Bears - 9th D - 5-11 (Mitch/glennon)
4. 2018 Jags - 5th D - 5-11 (bortles/Kessler)
5. 2019 Broncos -10th D - 7-9(flacco/allen/lock)
6. 2020 WFT - 4th D - 7-9 (smith/Haskins/allen)
7. 2020 Pats - 7th D - 7-9 (Newton/hoyer)
8. 2020 Giants - 9th D - 6-10 (Jones/McCoy)
9. 2021 Broncos - 3rd D - 7-10 (teddy/lock)
Now the results forThe bottom 10 defences each season since 2014:
Wins per season: 5.2
Winning %: 32%
Teams w double digit wins: 6/80 (7.5%)
Teams over 0.500: 9/80 (11%)
Teams under .500: 71/80 (89%)
Basically over the past 8 years top 10 defences have averaged twice as many wins per season as bottom 10 defences. We’ve spent 5/8 of those years with a bottom 10 defence. While a top 10 defence doesn’t necessarily make Carr fumble less or score more in the RZ… you can pretty safely assume any QB would’ve won significantly more games over a period of time if you swapped out a bottom 10 defence for a top 10 one.[/quote] Its 6 of 8 years with a bottom 10 defense. No quarterback since 2014 has played with a worst defense than Carr. Don't let the fact get in the way of everyone's Carr bias.
Avg wins per season: 10.2
Winning %: 64%
Teams w double digit wins: 48/80 (60%)
Teams 0.500 or better: 71/80 (89%)
Teams worse than 0.500: 9/80 (11%)
The 9 teams (and their QB) that had a top 10 defence and a losing record (chronologically):
1. 2014 browns -9th D -7-9 (hoyer/Manziel)
2. 2016 bengals - 8th D - 6-10 (Dalton)
3. 2017 Bears - 9th D - 5-11 (Mitch/glennon)
4. 2018 Jags - 5th D - 5-11 (bortles/Kessler)
5. 2019 Broncos -10th D - 7-9(flacco/allen/lock)
6. 2020 WFT - 4th D - 7-9 (smith/Haskins/allen)
7. 2020 Pats - 7th D - 7-9 (Newton/hoyer)
8. 2020 Giants - 9th D - 6-10 (Jones/McCoy)
9. 2021 Broncos - 3rd D - 7-10 (teddy/lock)
Now the results forThe bottom 10 defences each season since 2014:
Wins per season: 5.2
Winning %: 32%
Teams w double digit wins: 6/80 (7.5%)
Teams over 0.500: 9/80 (11%)
Teams under .500: 71/80 (89%)
Basically over the past 8 years top 10 defences have averaged twice as many wins per season as bottom 10 defences. We’ve spent 5/8 of those years with a bottom 10 defence. While a top 10 defence doesn’t necessarily make Carr fumble less or score more in the RZ… you can pretty safely assume any QB would’ve won significantly more games over a period of time if you swapped out a bottom 10 defence for a top 10 one.[/quote] Its 6 of 8 years with a bottom 10 defense. No quarterback since 2014 has played with a worst defense than Carr. Don't let the fact get in the way of everyone's Carr bias.
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CWood24
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[quote=HOLYRAIDER post_id=1072090] Its 6 of 8 years with a bottom 10 defense. No quarterback since 2014 has played with a worst defense than Carr. Don't let the fact get in the way of everyone's Carr bias.[/quote]This a flat out lie because our D have very rarely ever been the worst in the NFL, bad at times but not the worst
If a good QB can make a bad WR look good, can a bad a QB make a good WR look bad?
Comeback wins are a QB stats but losing is a team stat, explain?
Carr is an average QB who will gets you a few wins, cost you a few games & do nothing else of note he is the AFC’s Kirk Cousins
If a good QB can make a bad WR look good, can a bad a QB make a good WR look bad?
Comeback wins are a QB stats but losing is a team stat, explain?
Carr is an average QB who will gets you a few wins, cost you a few games & do nothing else of note he is the AFC’s Kirk Cousins
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Attyla
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[quote=HOLYRAIDER post_id=1072089] A pass to a wide receiver that was so good he's now on another team. And an offense play caller that had your two best receivers run out routes to the five yards lines.[/quote]and he was still in the pocket and still had time for those routes to mature
you are making excuses for a bad play by your boy
you are making excuses for a bad play by your boy
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16 to 88
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[quote=Attyla post_id=1072098]and he was still in the pocket and still had time for those routes to mature
you are making excuses for a bad play by your boy[/quote]Definitely had time to move around in the pocket and it appears the space to do so as well. But as you know this is not his specialty, he's a timing and rhythm quarterback. Still, this doesn't excuse the fact Renfrow is running a 5 yard flat route and the WR is well short of the endzone. So in reality it's likely Darren was going to be his only option IF our OL managed to hold up for a few more seconds, if Carr wasn't forced to his left and make a throw to the right and if Darren could have gotten open. Why was Waller the only option in the end zone?
you are making excuses for a bad play by your boy[/quote]Definitely had time to move around in the pocket and it appears the space to do so as well. But as you know this is not his specialty, he's a timing and rhythm quarterback. Still, this doesn't excuse the fact Renfrow is running a 5 yard flat route and the WR is well short of the endzone. So in reality it's likely Darren was going to be his only option IF our OL managed to hold up for a few more seconds, if Carr wasn't forced to his left and make a throw to the right and if Darren could have gotten open. Why was Waller the only option in the end zone?
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Oaktownonly
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All he had to do on that last play was a pump fake to Jones and it's a touchdown to Waller. He had plenty of time to do that. Not throw it into triple coverage. Not double but triple coverage. To a guy that even if he caught it wasn't making it into the endzone.
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Jeremyturner1976
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[quote=16 to 88 post_id=1072111]Definitely had time to move around in the pocket and it appears the space to do so as well. But as you know this is not his specialty, he's a timing and rhythm quarterback. Still, this doesn't excuse the fact Renfrow is running a 5 yard flat route and the WR is well short of the endzone. So in reality it's likely Darren was going to be his only option IF our OL managed to hold up for a few more seconds, if Carr wasn't forced to his left and make a throw to the right and if Darren could have gotten open. Why was Waller the only option in the end zone?[/quote]Do you believe that if it became a scramble drill (Something that happens all the time but you are treating like it would have been the first time in the NFL) that Renfrow would have stayed at the 5 yard line? Our smartest player would have made moves to get open in the endzone is what I believe.
All that said, Carr had plenty of opportunities to not suck the entire game, this one play is just a subset of the Jimmy G level playoff game he turned in.
All that said, Carr had plenty of opportunities to not suck the entire game, this one play is just a subset of the Jimmy G level playoff game he turned in.
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Raiders Baby
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[quote=raiders93 post_id=1072073]I agree with many of Carr critiques. In fact I think some of them are pretty much undeniable. My point was really directed at the Dubow revelation that defence doesn’t matter for Carr since he’ll find ways to score less when they do play well. But yea with a good D I’d expect likely 10 or more wins a year. Without even looking at the offences, here’s how the top 10 defences each year have done over the last 8 years (80 team sample).
Avg wins per season: 10.2
Winning %: 64%
Teams w double digit wins: 48/80 (60%)
Teams 0.500 or better: 71/80 (89%)
Teams worse than 0.500: 9/80 (11%)
The 9 teams (and their QB) that had a top 10 defence and a losing record (chronologically):
1. 2014 browns -9th D -7-9 (hoyer/Manziel)
2. 2016 bengals - 8th D - 6-10 (Dalton)
3. 2017 Bears - 9th D - 5-11 (Mitch/glennon)
4. 2018 Jags - 5th D - 5-11 (bortles/Kessler)
5. 2019 Broncos -10th D - 7-9(flacco/allen/lock)
6. 2020 WFT - 4th D - 7-9 (smith/Haskins/allen)
7. 2020 Pats - 7th D - 7-9 (Newton/hoyer)
8. 2020 Giants - 9th D - 6-10 (Jones/McCoy)
9. 2021 Broncos - 3rd D - 7-10 (teddy/lock)
Now the results forThe bottom 10 defences each season since 2014:
Wins per season: 5.2
Winning %: 32%
Teams w double digit wins: 6/80 (7.5%)
Teams over 0.500: 9/80 (11%)
Teams under .500: 71/80 (89%)
Basically over the past 8 years top 10 defences have averaged twice as many wins per season as bottom 10 defences. We’ve spent 5/8 of those years with a bottom 10 defence. While a top 10 defence doesn’t necessarily make Carr fumble less or score more in the RZ… you can pretty safely assume any QB would’ve won significantly more games over a period of time if you swapped out a bottom 10 defence for a top 10 one.[/quote]Good take.
I think no matter what side of the debate you land on, pretty much everyone agrees the defense has been bad and that a better defense would yield better results. The question is not whether or not the defense could/should be better, but rather if a better defense would be enough for us to experience significant success with a guy like Carr.
He hasn’t been good enough to overcome bad-mediocre teams, but only the very best are. Can he be good enough to lead a great team? I don’t think it’s out of the question, but I’m skeptical given his overall record, and Defense Sub 20 record.
Adding a little nuance, football is complementary. A lot of people like to paint the picture that the O plays well all the time and the D blows, but in my mind it’s just as common that the O is stalling and the D gets overworked and put in bad positions. It’s no wonder guys who look good elsewhere come here and suck.
But overall, I think your point considers a lot of that; this is more adding on than refuting.
Avg wins per season: 10.2
Winning %: 64%
Teams w double digit wins: 48/80 (60%)
Teams 0.500 or better: 71/80 (89%)
Teams worse than 0.500: 9/80 (11%)
The 9 teams (and their QB) that had a top 10 defence and a losing record (chronologically):
1. 2014 browns -9th D -7-9 (hoyer/Manziel)
2. 2016 bengals - 8th D - 6-10 (Dalton)
3. 2017 Bears - 9th D - 5-11 (Mitch/glennon)
4. 2018 Jags - 5th D - 5-11 (bortles/Kessler)
5. 2019 Broncos -10th D - 7-9(flacco/allen/lock)
6. 2020 WFT - 4th D - 7-9 (smith/Haskins/allen)
7. 2020 Pats - 7th D - 7-9 (Newton/hoyer)
8. 2020 Giants - 9th D - 6-10 (Jones/McCoy)
9. 2021 Broncos - 3rd D - 7-10 (teddy/lock)
Now the results forThe bottom 10 defences each season since 2014:
Wins per season: 5.2
Winning %: 32%
Teams w double digit wins: 6/80 (7.5%)
Teams over 0.500: 9/80 (11%)
Teams under .500: 71/80 (89%)
Basically over the past 8 years top 10 defences have averaged twice as many wins per season as bottom 10 defences. We’ve spent 5/8 of those years with a bottom 10 defence. While a top 10 defence doesn’t necessarily make Carr fumble less or score more in the RZ… you can pretty safely assume any QB would’ve won significantly more games over a period of time if you swapped out a bottom 10 defence for a top 10 one.[/quote]Good take.
I think no matter what side of the debate you land on, pretty much everyone agrees the defense has been bad and that a better defense would yield better results. The question is not whether or not the defense could/should be better, but rather if a better defense would be enough for us to experience significant success with a guy like Carr.
He hasn’t been good enough to overcome bad-mediocre teams, but only the very best are. Can he be good enough to lead a great team? I don’t think it’s out of the question, but I’m skeptical given his overall record, and Defense Sub 20 record.
Adding a little nuance, football is complementary. A lot of people like to paint the picture that the O plays well all the time and the D blows, but in my mind it’s just as common that the O is stalling and the D gets overworked and put in bad positions. It’s no wonder guys who look good elsewhere come here and suck.
But overall, I think your point considers a lot of that; this is more adding on than refuting.