Emo Andy Dalton after a trip to Sephora on Groundhog Day (Carr thread)
-
RaiderandBulldog
- Posts: 16,344
- Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:18 pm
- Location: Fresno Ca
- Has given High Fives: 208 times
- Received High Fives: 442 times
-
GoodTimeCharlie
- Posts: 4,955
- Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:26 pm
- Location: Atop the commode
- Has given High Fives: 1535 times
- Received High Fives: 1575 times
[quote=KillerRaider30 post_id=1068382]Not true
No heavy criticism of Carr if that's what you're looking for but I believe in the relationship between cause and effect. Something thats not talked about.[/quote]At this point you are being willfully obtuse. I’ll redo the “game winning drives” and add in the mountain of incomplete passes, but if you can’t even see the silliness in something like Carr being credited with a “game winning drive” when the winning score is made by a 48 yard field goal, then this isn’t a conversation.
Any and all of the clearly stated obvious data with red zone efficiency, allocation of salary cap, “game winning drives” only finds itself in a blind spot with you. Enjoy your Carr-flavored Kool-Aid.
No heavy criticism of Carr if that's what you're looking for but I believe in the relationship between cause and effect. Something thats not talked about.[/quote]At this point you are being willfully obtuse. I’ll redo the “game winning drives” and add in the mountain of incomplete passes, but if you can’t even see the silliness in something like Carr being credited with a “game winning drive” when the winning score is made by a 48 yard field goal, then this isn’t a conversation.
Any and all of the clearly stated obvious data with red zone efficiency, allocation of salary cap, “game winning drives” only finds itself in a blind spot with you. Enjoy your Carr-flavored Kool-Aid.
-
Attyla
- Posts: 52,595
- Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:31 pm
- Has given High Fives: 1236 times
- Received High Fives: 2950 times
[quote=KillerRaider30 post_id=1068382]Not true
No heavy criticism of Carr if that's what you're looking for but I believe in the relationship between cause and effect. Something thats not talked about.[/quote]actually it was very true. Show me in your post where you add in anything even close to accountability for the QB.
You start off trying to get another discussion going about 2016 vs 2017 and then abandon that to go into your rant about coaching changes and of course the ever present defense discussion in the QB thread.
here, let me help you out: QB last play of the season, discuss. Or how about, QB play as the season progresses, discuss. I know, those topics suck so you can get a pass and discuss the defense in the QB thread. After all, it was you who brought up QB wins which started this latest discussion
No heavy criticism of Carr if that's what you're looking for but I believe in the relationship between cause and effect. Something thats not talked about.[/quote]actually it was very true. Show me in your post where you add in anything even close to accountability for the QB.
You start off trying to get another discussion going about 2016 vs 2017 and then abandon that to go into your rant about coaching changes and of course the ever present defense discussion in the QB thread.
here, let me help you out: QB last play of the season, discuss. Or how about, QB play as the season progresses, discuss. I know, those topics suck so you can get a pass and discuss the defense in the QB thread. After all, it was you who brought up QB wins which started this latest discussion
-
KillerRaider30
- Posts: 7,596
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:24 pm
- Has given High Fives: 625 times
- Received High Fives: 550 times
but agree Carr failed to deliver 1 last time with Waller open outside to tie it.
-
KillerRaider30
- Posts: 7,596
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:24 pm
- Has given High Fives: 625 times
- Received High Fives: 550 times
[quote=GoodTimeCharlie post_id=1068384]At this point you are being willfully obtuse. I’ll redo the “game winning drives” and add in the mountain of incomplete passes, but if you can’t even see the silliness in something like Carr being credited with a “game winning drive” when the winning score is made by a 48 yard field goal, then this isn’t a conversation.
Any and all of the clearly stated obvious data with red zone efficiency, allocation of salary cap, “game winning drives” only finds itself in a blind spot with you. Enjoy your Carr-flavored Kool-Aid.[/quote] I only brought up game winning drives to show Derek has some qualities in pressure situations. Yes
Thats all bud
Any and all of the clearly stated obvious data with red zone efficiency, allocation of salary cap, “game winning drives” only finds itself in a blind spot with you. Enjoy your Carr-flavored Kool-Aid.[/quote] I only brought up game winning drives to show Derek has some qualities in pressure situations. Yes
Thats all bud
-
Attyla
- Posts: 52,595
- Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:31 pm
- Has given High Fives: 1236 times
- Received High Fives: 2950 times
ironically recent discussion of the QB is lacking any substance regarding the QB
-
raiders93
- Posts: 5,062
- Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:34 pm
- Has given High Fives: 8 times
- Received High Fives: 256 times
[quote=Attyla post_id=1068395]ironically recent discussion of the QB is lacking any substance regarding the QB[/quote]QB discussion - needs to get significantly better in the RZ and reduction of turnovers.
Hopefully the upgraded playcaller and weapons can help boost the RZ numbers. I don’t think Carr suddenly starts doing that on his own. A lot of RZ passing TDs come from the play after the play. Extending plays on a scramble and keeping eyes up for someone to get lost in coverage or create an opening. Better RZ numbers imo are basically going to come down to play design. Get Adams or Waller a one-on-one. Throw in some creative play designs or PAs to create an easy TD.
Unless the o-line is a revelation I anticipate the turnovers will continue to be a problem. At this point it seems the only way to reduce Carrs fumbling is to reduce the amount of times he gets hit. Better ground game and implementation of a convincing play action game could also help. That seemed to be the recipe in 2016. O-line was a lot better but musgrave seemed to use playaction, deep drop backs and rollouts to help mitigate how much traffic Carr had around him.
Hopefully the upgraded playcaller and weapons can help boost the RZ numbers. I don’t think Carr suddenly starts doing that on his own. A lot of RZ passing TDs come from the play after the play. Extending plays on a scramble and keeping eyes up for someone to get lost in coverage or create an opening. Better RZ numbers imo are basically going to come down to play design. Get Adams or Waller a one-on-one. Throw in some creative play designs or PAs to create an easy TD.
Unless the o-line is a revelation I anticipate the turnovers will continue to be a problem. At this point it seems the only way to reduce Carrs fumbling is to reduce the amount of times he gets hit. Better ground game and implementation of a convincing play action game could also help. That seemed to be the recipe in 2016. O-line was a lot better but musgrave seemed to use playaction, deep drop backs and rollouts to help mitigate how much traffic Carr had around him.
-
KillerRaider30
- Posts: 7,596
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:24 pm
- Has given High Fives: 625 times
- Received High Fives: 550 times
[quote=Attyla post_id=1068395]ironically recent discussion of the QB is lacking any substance regarding the QB[/quote]Can we really discuss a QB without giving thought to who's on the field with him, whos coaching and what system they run fairly?
The offense is not scoring enough TDs, why
The offense is not scoring enough TDs, why
-
Attyla
- Posts: 52,595
- Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:31 pm
- Has given High Fives: 1236 times
- Received High Fives: 2950 times
[quote=KillerRaider30 post_id=1068433]Can we really discuss a QB without giving thought to who's on the field with him, whos coaching and what system they run fairly?
The offense is not scoring enough TDs, why[/quote]we can, and it is very telling when posts eliminate all discussion of the QB at all
But when a post starts with a QB win stat and then mentions everything but the QB I begin to laugh. We have been told wins are not a QB stat (despite all evidence that say that is not true) and then the win stat is introduced. And those same posters end up going back to the tried and true come back wins as a QB stat.
As for why we did not score enough? when your QB ranks in the top ten in yards but outside of the top 15 in points, it is not the players around him. It might be coaching or play calling but when the differential is as big as it is between yards and points you can eliminate coaching pretty much all together. You probably can reduce the chance that it is play calling as well. And of course, we also have to factor in the audibles at the line. The QB is supposed to read the defense and do one of two things, either stay with the play or aubible to one of his preset options.
So yes, in the QB discussion thread, discussing the QB in a vacuum is possible. But doing so is not popular with certain fans who want to blame everything else for the QB play.
The offense is not scoring enough TDs, why[/quote]we can, and it is very telling when posts eliminate all discussion of the QB at all
But when a post starts with a QB win stat and then mentions everything but the QB I begin to laugh. We have been told wins are not a QB stat (despite all evidence that say that is not true) and then the win stat is introduced. And those same posters end up going back to the tried and true come back wins as a QB stat.
As for why we did not score enough? when your QB ranks in the top ten in yards but outside of the top 15 in points, it is not the players around him. It might be coaching or play calling but when the differential is as big as it is between yards and points you can eliminate coaching pretty much all together. You probably can reduce the chance that it is play calling as well. And of course, we also have to factor in the audibles at the line. The QB is supposed to read the defense and do one of two things, either stay with the play or aubible to one of his preset options.
So yes, in the QB discussion thread, discussing the QB in a vacuum is possible. But doing so is not popular with certain fans who want to blame everything else for the QB play.
-
KillerRaider30
- Posts: 7,596
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:24 pm
- Has given High Fives: 625 times
- Received High Fives: 550 times
[quote=Attyla post_id=1068434]we can, and it is very telling when posts eliminate all discussion of the QB at all
But when a post starts with a QB win stat and then mentions everything but the QB I begin to laugh. We have been told wins are not a QB stat (despite all evidence that say that is not true) and then the win stat is introduced. And those same posters end up going back to the tried and true come back wins as a QB stat.
As for why we did not score enough? when your QB ranks in the top ten in yards but outside of the top 15 in points, it is not the players around him. It might be coaching or play calling but when the differential is as big as it is between yards and points you can eliminate coaching pretty much all together. You probably can reduce the chance that it is play calling as well. And of course, we also have to factor in the audibles at the line. The QB is supposed to read the defense and do one of two things, either stay with the play or aubible to one of his preset options.
So yes, in the QB discussion thread, discussing the QB in a vacuum is possible. But doing so is not popular with certain fans who want to blame everything else for the QB play.[/quote]Than your of the school that a corners play has no effect on pass rush or Amari Cooper having 287 less snaps in 2017 than he had in 2016 doesn't mean anything either.
But when a post starts with a QB win stat and then mentions everything but the QB I begin to laugh. We have been told wins are not a QB stat (despite all evidence that say that is not true) and then the win stat is introduced. And those same posters end up going back to the tried and true come back wins as a QB stat.
As for why we did not score enough? when your QB ranks in the top ten in yards but outside of the top 15 in points, it is not the players around him. It might be coaching or play calling but when the differential is as big as it is between yards and points you can eliminate coaching pretty much all together. You probably can reduce the chance that it is play calling as well. And of course, we also have to factor in the audibles at the line. The QB is supposed to read the defense and do one of two things, either stay with the play or aubible to one of his preset options.
So yes, in the QB discussion thread, discussing the QB in a vacuum is possible. But doing so is not popular with certain fans who want to blame everything else for the QB play.[/quote]Than your of the school that a corners play has no effect on pass rush or Amari Cooper having 287 less snaps in 2017 than he had in 2016 doesn't mean anything either.
-
chucker
- Posts: 17,044
- Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:53 am
- Has given High Fives: 2063 times
- Received High Fives: 2765 times
[quote=KillerRaider30 post_id=1068435]Than your of the school that a corners play has no effect on pass rush or Amari Cooper having 287 less snaps in 2017 than he had in 2016 doesn't mean anything either.[/quote]Carr sucked and the Raiders sucked in 2017 while Cooper was still healthy and playing a high percentage of snaps. His snap count still would have been down if he'd stayed healthy, but that's what happens when your offense sucks and cannot sustain drives.
-
Raidernation1979
- Posts: 8,314
- Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:39 am
- Has given High Fives: 297 times
- Received High Fives: 826 times
[quote=KillerRaider30 post_id=1068433]Can we really discuss a QB without giving thought to who's on the field with him, whos coaching and what system they run fairly?
The offense is not scoring enough TDs, why[/quote]How can he be tops in yardage and not have the horses/play calls to score? Or is it just the windows get much smaller and the qb is more rattled in this area.
The offense is not scoring enough TDs, why[/quote]How can he be tops in yardage and not have the horses/play calls to score? Or is it just the windows get much smaller and the qb is more rattled in this area.
-
KillerRaider30
- Posts: 7,596
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:24 pm
- Has given High Fives: 625 times
- Received High Fives: 550 times
[quote=Raidernation1979 post_id=1068438]How can he be tops in yardage and not have the horses/play calls to score? Or is it just the windows get much smaller and the qb is more rattled in this area.[/quote]Something to think about no doubt.
In 2016 he ranked 9th in the RZ with TDs 19 on 90 attemps with 44 comp.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... assing.htm
In 2017 he ranked 20th with 12 TDs on 45 attemps and 22 comp.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... assing.htm
In 2016 he ranked 9th in the RZ with TDs 19 on 90 attemps with 44 comp.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... assing.htm
In 2017 he ranked 20th with 12 TDs on 45 attemps and 22 comp.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... assing.htm
-
signal
- Posts: 13,249
- Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 8:52 am
I think EVERYONE can agree that if their red zone offense does not improve, the Raiders will remain pretenders. They may sneak their way into the playoffs, especially now with the extra wildcard, but they will not be a serious contender and will be shuffled off in the first round like the other pretenders.
IF the Raiders were a dangerous team in the red zone last year, one could make the argument that the Raiders beat the Bengals.
Josh and Carr must solve that puzzle if they are to make some noise in a much improved AFC West. If they cannot, the Raiders will never become serious contenders.
POINTS!!! Serious contenders put up A LOT of points. If you want to compete with Buffalo and the Chiefs...you NEED to put up POINTS.
We can sit here and whine about the D, but the fact is, that there are teams that will put up the points....in those games that matter most. Raiders need to do just that in 2022.
IF the Raiders were a dangerous team in the red zone last year, one could make the argument that the Raiders beat the Bengals.
Josh and Carr must solve that puzzle if they are to make some noise in a much improved AFC West. If they cannot, the Raiders will never become serious contenders.
POINTS!!! Serious contenders put up A LOT of points. If you want to compete with Buffalo and the Chiefs...you NEED to put up POINTS.
We can sit here and whine about the D, but the fact is, that there are teams that will put up the points....in those games that matter most. Raiders need to do just that in 2022.
-
Jeremyturner1976
- Posts: 6,830
- Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:26 am
[quote=KillerRaider30 post_id=1068440]Something to think about no doubt.
In 2016 he ranked 9th in the RZ with TDs 19 on 90 attemps with 44 comp.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... assing.htm
In 2017 he ranked 20th with 12 TDs on 45 attemps and 22 comp.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... assing.htm[/quote]It looks like you are looking at total TDs in the redzone as 'ranks'. That is not how you do it, that is just how the table starts, sorted by total TDs. Volume is a joke stat. Here try this on for reality.
The NFL passer rating formula includes four variables: completion percentage, yards per attempt, touchdowns per attempt, and interceptions per attempt. Each of those variables is scaled to a value between 0 and 2.375, with 1.0 being statistically average (based on league data between 1960–1970).
So compared to his peers, you see the results below. Something to think about, no doubt.
https://mobile.twitter.com/joshdubowap/ ... 00?lang=en
In 2016 he ranked 9th in the RZ with TDs 19 on 90 attemps with 44 comp.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... assing.htm
In 2017 he ranked 20th with 12 TDs on 45 attemps and 22 comp.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... assing.htm[/quote]It looks like you are looking at total TDs in the redzone as 'ranks'. That is not how you do it, that is just how the table starts, sorted by total TDs. Volume is a joke stat. Here try this on for reality.
The NFL passer rating formula includes four variables: completion percentage, yards per attempt, touchdowns per attempt, and interceptions per attempt. Each of those variables is scaled to a value between 0 and 2.375, with 1.0 being statistically average (based on league data between 1960–1970).
So compared to his peers, you see the results below. Something to think about, no doubt.
https://mobile.twitter.com/joshdubowap/ ... 00?lang=en
-
Raider727
- Posts: 5,832
- Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:40 pm
- Location: Somewhere drinking tangy 🍊
- Has given High Fives: 36 times
- Received High Fives: 125 times
Derek Carr in the redzone:
2014: 18 td's 1 interception
2015: 17 td's 2 interceptions
2016: 19 td's 1 interception
2017: 12 td's 1 interception
2018: 14 td's 2 interceptions
2019: 15 td's 2 interceptions
Justin Herbert threw 20 td's and 1 interceptions in the redzone his rookie year, while Carr threw 15 td's and 1 interception in 2020.
Justin Herbert threw 28 td's and 1 interception in the redzone in 2021, while Derek Carr threw 17 td's and 2 interceptions int the redzone.
This is one of the reasons Herbert is better than Carr for sure.
Carr sucks in the redzone period.
2014: 18 td's 1 interception
2015: 17 td's 2 interceptions
2016: 19 td's 1 interception
2017: 12 td's 1 interception
2018: 14 td's 2 interceptions
2019: 15 td's 2 interceptions
Justin Herbert threw 20 td's and 1 interceptions in the redzone his rookie year, while Carr threw 15 td's and 1 interception in 2020.
Justin Herbert threw 28 td's and 1 interception in the redzone in 2021, while Derek Carr threw 17 td's and 2 interceptions int the redzone.
This is one of the reasons Herbert is better than Carr for sure.
Carr sucks in the redzone period.