Emo Andy Dalton after a trip to Sephora on Groundhog Day (Carr thread)
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RaiderandBulldog
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JRaider17
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[quote=signal post_id=1061011]Yes, agree, right now I am a tad pessimistic for whatever reasons, and hope that a statistically good year means a lot of wins. I do see a scenario where it does not.[/quote]Seems like the expectation is top 10 to probably even top 5 offense (scoring wise too) in order for us to reach potential. Need the defense to at least be solid, but any sort of drop off in either the other side of the ball is going to have to step up.
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Jeremyturner1976
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[quote=JRaider17 post_id=1061003]So you are saying that the 2016 year is a low bar in your opinion?[/quote]I believe he was statistically not even a top 10 QB that year, I have seen the numbers but don't have them available. He had lots of close games the team won, which heavily weighted his mvp votes.
He was an 11-13 QB last year, so he is kind of there already just without the '16 blinders on for mvp voters based on close games. I am pretty sure the collapse the season after '16 made them wary of voting for him like that again. His late season collapses handled the rest.
I agree though, barring a terrible offensive line, this should be his best shot at looking top 10.
He was an 11-13 QB last year, so he is kind of there already just without the '16 blinders on for mvp voters based on close games. I am pretty sure the collapse the season after '16 made them wary of voting for him like that again. His late season collapses handled the rest.
I agree though, barring a terrible offensive line, this should be his best shot at looking top 10.
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CWood24
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[quote=Jeremyturner1976 post_id=1061013]I believe he was statistically not even a top 10 QB that year, I have seen the numbers but don't have them available. He had lots of close games the team won, which heavily weighted his mvp votes.
He was an 11-13 QB last year, so he is kind of there already just without the '16 blinders on for mvp voters based on close games. I am pretty sure the collapse the season after '16 made them wary of voting for him like that again. His late season collapses handled the rest.
I agree though, barring a terrible offensive line, this should be his best shot at looking top 10.[/quote]If his numbers change who do you attribute that to the QB or the weapons around him in my book if you need to load up your offence to prop up your QB then your QB ain't the guy, Carr would have to have an MVP like season for me to even consider he was the difference
He was an 11-13 QB last year, so he is kind of there already just without the '16 blinders on for mvp voters based on close games. I am pretty sure the collapse the season after '16 made them wary of voting for him like that again. His late season collapses handled the rest.
I agree though, barring a terrible offensive line, this should be his best shot at looking top 10.[/quote]If his numbers change who do you attribute that to the QB or the weapons around him in my book if you need to load up your offence to prop up your QB then your QB ain't the guy, Carr would have to have an MVP like season for me to even consider he was the difference
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Attyla
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[quote=JRaider17 post_id=1061003]So you are saying that the 2016 year is a low bar in your opinion?[/quote]compared to the years surrounding it, I would think so? Are you suggesting otherwise or are you going to stick to your facts based on opinions?
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Jeremyturner1976
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[quote=CWood24 post_id=1061014]If his numbers change who do you attribute that to the QB or the weapons around him in my book if you need to load up your offence to prop up your QB then your QB ain't the guy, Carr would have to have an MVP like season for me to even consider he was the difference[/quote]No, this is spot on. Stafford is the Rams QB, but he was surrounded with more talent than any existing NFL team.
Stafford did not get bumped up suddenly to a top 5 elite QB, because this is known. Realistically any QB at or better than Stafford's level could have won with that team.
They built the team, then paid a proven veteran QB they acquired easily with draft picks. I like this idea much more than paying Carr 40.5 million a year while trying to stack a Rams level roster without any cap money, but for next year, he is cheap.
History says Carr needs a Rams level roster or better - defense included. I just don't see it happening when the bills are due in '23. That Rams team was talent wise, likely the best we have seen in a SuperBowl in a decade, maybe ever.
The other option would need a Cinderella season, but that requires a QB who plays lights out in the playoffs. Carr is not that guy, at all. He wilts to end seasons.
It is up to Carr to change that, I do not believe he will. That said, next year will be a damn good time.
Stafford did not get bumped up suddenly to a top 5 elite QB, because this is known. Realistically any QB at or better than Stafford's level could have won with that team.
They built the team, then paid a proven veteran QB they acquired easily with draft picks. I like this idea much more than paying Carr 40.5 million a year while trying to stack a Rams level roster without any cap money, but for next year, he is cheap.
History says Carr needs a Rams level roster or better - defense included. I just don't see it happening when the bills are due in '23. That Rams team was talent wise, likely the best we have seen in a SuperBowl in a decade, maybe ever.
The other option would need a Cinderella season, but that requires a QB who plays lights out in the playoffs. Carr is not that guy, at all. He wilts to end seasons.
It is up to Carr to change that, I do not believe he will. That said, next year will be a damn good time.
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BluegrassRaider
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[quote=Raider727 post_id=1060883]I hope Carr proves the doubters wrong because that will mean the Raiders are winning. The Lombardi is the ultimate goal!
If it doesn't workout with Carr at the end, that will be a decade gone to waste without the Raiders finding their franchise QB.[/quote]Worse, it will be essentially without even trying to so so.
If it doesn't workout with Carr at the end, that will be a decade gone to waste without the Raiders finding their franchise QB.[/quote]Worse, it will be essentially without even trying to so so.
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JRaider17
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[quote=Attyla post_id=1061017]compared to the years surrounding it, I would think so? Are you suggesting otherwise or are you going to stick to your facts based on opinions?[/quote]Not talking MVP voting in this instance, I'm just asking is 2016 Carr's play and stats considered a low bar for a QB?
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GoodTimeCharlie
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[quote=JRaider17 post_id=1061023]Not talking MVP voting in this instance, I'm just asking is 2016 Carr's play and stats considered a low bar for a QB?[/quote]High bar for Carr. Low bar for elite qb’s, stats-wise. The record was excellent for any qb, but then we get in the quandary of Team vs Player.
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GoodTimeCharlie
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Has anybody prepared to buy a car by test driving it 16 to 17 times a year, for 8 years? Still undecided even though you had to call a tow truck more than 50% of the time.
Has anyone gone on a date with a woman/man 16 to 17 times a year, for 8 years? More than half the time the date totally sucked, but you still wondered if they were “The One”.
Has anyone ate at a restaurant 16 to 17 times a year, for 8 years? Over that time you ate 127 meals. 70 of them made you sick.
#four
*choker
Has anyone gone on a date with a woman/man 16 to 17 times a year, for 8 years? More than half the time the date totally sucked, but you still wondered if they were “The One”.
Has anyone ate at a restaurant 16 to 17 times a year, for 8 years? Over that time you ate 127 meals. 70 of them made you sick.
#four
*choker
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Attyla
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[quote=JRaider17 post_id=1061023]Not talking MVP voting in this instance, I'm just asking is 2016 Carr's play and stats considered a low bar for a QB?[/quote]now we are moving the goalposts. But the 2016 yards are tied for 233rd all time and his TDs are not even worth looking up the rankings. The one claim to fame he gets is 7 come from behind wins. Beyond that, he played more aggressively than at any point in his career.
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BluegrassRaider
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[quote=JRaider17 post_id=1060993]We are still going to act like its a low bar though?[/quote]Nah...just a relatively middling one.
He was third by country mile in a down year. He was 2/3 of his own tally behind 2nd too.
Most season those numbers don't merit consideration. Dude doesn't throw a slew of touchdowns and the yardage has become fairly commonplace though big for us as an organization. We have either old school guys different age of the game bridge types, and bums so it doesn't take cream to rise to the top of that water. Skim does it.
This is the age of relatively easy passing yardage. Chumps put up what would be Hall of fame lock numbers all the time from earlier NFL seasons.
He was third by country mile in a down year. He was 2/3 of his own tally behind 2nd too.
Most season those numbers don't merit consideration. Dude doesn't throw a slew of touchdowns and the yardage has become fairly commonplace though big for us as an organization. We have either old school guys different age of the game bridge types, and bums so it doesn't take cream to rise to the top of that water. Skim does it.
This is the age of relatively easy passing yardage. Chumps put up what would be Hall of fame lock numbers all the time from earlier NFL seasons.
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Raidernation1979
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Carr wasn’t special in 2016. 2015 he faded in second half of season like normal. 2016 he couldn’t beat the Cheifs when it mattered and his defense gave him all the help in the world with the ball inside the chiefs 40 twice. 2016 we had the number 6 rushing offense and 1st or second in defensive turnovers. They helped inflate Carr a little bit but he continually disappeared in games. We had anemic at best 2nd and 3rd quarter scoring.
He’s never been that good. He never will be
He’s never been that good. He never will be
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BluegrassRaider
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30 plus touchdown seasons.
Leaders
Rank Player TD Year Tm
1 Peyton Manning+ (37) 55 2013 DEN
2 Tom Brady (30) 50 2007 NWE
Patrick Mahomes (22) 50 2018 KAN
4 Peyton Manning+ (28) 49 2004 IND
5 Dan Marino+ (22) 48 1984 MIA
Aaron Rodgers (36) 48 2020 GNB
7 Drew Brees (32) 46 2011 NOR
8 Aaron Rodgers (27) 45 2011 GNB
9 Dan Marino+ (24) 44 1986 MIA
10 Tom Brady (44) 43 2021 TAM
Drew Brees (33) 43 2012 NOR
12 Matthew Stafford (23) 41 2011 DET
Matthew Stafford (33) 41 2021 LAR
Kurt Warner+ (28) 41 1999 STL
15 Tom Brady (43) 40 2020 TAM
Andrew Luck (24) 40 2014 IND
Aaron Rodgers (32) 40 2016 GNB
Russell Wilson (31) 40 2020 SEA
19 Tom Brady (34) 39 2011 NWE
Drew Brees (34) 39 2013 NOR
Daunte Culpepper (27) 39 2004 MIN
Brett Favre+ (26) 39 1996 GNB
Andrew Luck (28) 39 2018 IND
Peyton Manning+ (38) 39 2014 DEN
Aaron Rodgers (28) 39 2012 GNB
Rank Player TD Year Tm
26 Brett Favre+ (25) 38 1995 GNB
Justin Herbert (23) 38 2021 LAC
Patrick Mahomes (24) 38 2020 KAN
Aaron Rodgers (30) 38 2014 GNB
Matt Ryan (31) 38 2016 ATL
31 Josh Allen (24) 37 2020 BUF
Drew Brees (37) 37 2016 NOR
Patrick Mahomes (25) 37 2021 KAN
Peyton Manning+ (36) 37 2012 DEN
Dak Prescott (28) 37 2021 DAL
Aaron Rodgers (37) 37 2021 GNB
37 Josh Allen (25) 36 2021 BUF
Steve Beuerlein (34) 36 1999 CAR
George Blanda+ (33) 36 1961 HOU
Tom Brady (33) 36 2010 NWE
Tom Brady (38) 36 2015 NWE
Lamar Jackson (22) 36 2019 BAL
Tony Romo (27) 36 2007 DAL
Y.A. Tittle+ (36) 36 1963 NYG
Kurt Warner+ (30) 36 2001 STL
Steve Young+ (36) 36 1998 SFO
47 Blake Bortles (23) 35 2015 JAX
Kirk Cousins (32) 35 2020 MIN
Brett Favre+ (27) 35 1997 GNB
Eli Manning (34) 35 2015 NYG
Rank Player TD Year Tm
Cam Newton (26) 35 2015 CAR
Carson Palmer (35) 35 2015 ARI
Matt Ryan (33) 35 2018 ATL
Russell Wilson (29) 35 2018 SEA
Steve Young+ (32) 35 1994 SFO
56 Tom Brady (35) 34 2012 NWE
Drew Brees (29) 34 2008 NOR
Drew Brees (30) 34 2009 NOR
Joe Burrow (24) 34 2021 CIN
Randall Cunningham (35) 34 1998
Lamonica (28) 34 1969 OAK
Philip Rivers (26) 34 2008 SDG
Ben Roethlisberger (36) 34 2018 PIT
Tony Romo (34) 34 2014 DAL
Russell Wilson (26) 34 2015 SEA
Russell Wilson (28) 34 2017 SEA
67 Tom Brady (37) 33 2014 NWE
Drew Brees (31) 33 2010 NOR
Drew Brees (35) 33 2014 NOR
Kirk Cousins (33) 33 2021 MIN
Daunte Culpepper (23) 33 2000 MIN
Andy Dalton (25) 33 2013 CIN
Brett Favre+ (24) 33 1994 GNB
Brett Favre+ (39) 33 2009 MIN
Dan Fouts+ (30) 33 1981 SDG
Rank Player TD Year Tm
Jim Kelly+ (31) 33 1991 BUF
Peyton Manning+ (24) 33 2000 IND
Peyton Manning+ (33) 33 2009 IND
Peyton Manning+ (34) 33 2010 IND
Warren Moon+ (33) 33 1990 HOU
Warren Moon+ (38) 33 1995 MIN
Philip Rivers (34) 33 2016 SDG
Ben Roethlisberger (38) 33 2020 PIT
Ryan Tannehill (32) 33 2020 TEN
Vinny Testaverde (32) 33 1996 BAL
Y.A. Tittle+ (35) 33 1962 NYG
Deshaun Watson (24) 33 2020 HOU
Carson Wentz (24) 33 2017 PHI
Jameis Winston (25) 33 2019 TAM
90 Tom Brady (40) 32 2017 NWE
Drew Brees (36) 32 2015 NOR
Drew Brees (39) 32 2018 NOR
Derek Carr (24) 32 2015 OAK
Lynn Dickey (33) 32 1983 GNB
Brett Favre+ (31) 32 2001 GNB
Brett Favre+ (33) 32 2003 GNB
Jeff Garcia (31) 32 2001 SFO
Jared Goff (23) 32 2018 LAR
Sonny Jurgensen+ (27) 32 1961 PHI
Dave Krieg (25) 32 1984 SEA
Rank Player TD Year Tm
Scott Mitchell (27) 32 1995 DET
Carson Palmer (25) 32 2005 CIN
Philip Rivers (31) 32 2013 SDG
Philip Rivers (36) 32 2018 LAC
Ben Roethlisberger (25) 32 2007 PIT
Ben Roethlisberger (32) 32 2014 PIT
Matt Ryan (27) 32 2012 ATL
Matthew Stafford (27) 32 2015 DET
Johnny Unitas+ (26) 32 1959 BAL
110 Steve Bartkowski (27) 31 1980 ATL
Jim Everett (25) 31 1988 RAM
Brett Favre+ (28) 31 1998 GNB
Ryan Fitzpatrick (32) 31 2015 NYJ
Jeff Garcia (30) 31 2000 SFO
Justin Herbert (22) 31 2020 LAC
Sonny Jurgensen+ (33) 31 1967 WAS
Andrew Luck (26) 31 2016 IND
Eli Manning (29) 31 2010 NYG
Peyton Manning+ (30) 31 2006 IND
Peyton Manning+ (31) 31 2007 IND
Donovan McNabb (27) 31 2004 PHI
Joe Montana+ (31) 31 1987 SFO
Babe Parilli (34) 31 1964 BOS
Philip Rivers (32) 31 2014 SDG
Aaron Rodgers (31) 31 2015 GNB
Rank Player TD Year Tm
Tony Romo (31) 31 2011 DAL
Tony Romo (33) 31 2013 DAL
Russell Wilson (30) 31 2019 SEA
129 Steve Bartkowski (28) 30 1981 ATL
John Brodie (30) 30 1965 SFO
Kirk Cousins (30) 30 2018 MIN
Randall Cunningham (27) 30 1990 PHI
Len Dawson+ (29) 30 1964 KAN
Brett Favre+ (34) 30 2004 GNB
Vince Ferragamo (26) 30 1980 RAM
Dan Fouts+ (29) 30 1980 SDG
Daryle Lamonica (26) 30 1967 OAK
Eli Manning (33) 30 2014 NYG
Dan Marino+ (23) 30 1985 MIA
Dan Marino+ (32) 30 1994 MIA
Dak Prescott (26) 30 2019 DAL
Philip Rivers (28) 30 2010 SDG
Aaron Rodgers (25) 30 2009 GNB
Brian Sipe (31) 30 1980 CLE
Kurt Warner+ (37) 30 2008
There are quite a few Lamonica threw 34 in 1969.
A high of 32 isn't special. Tannehill and Cousins have bested it. Scott Mitchell matched it. Jackson has beat it and supposedly he can't throw.
Leaders
Rank Player TD Year Tm
1 Peyton Manning+ (37) 55 2013 DEN
2 Tom Brady (30) 50 2007 NWE
Patrick Mahomes (22) 50 2018 KAN
4 Peyton Manning+ (28) 49 2004 IND
5 Dan Marino+ (22) 48 1984 MIA
Aaron Rodgers (36) 48 2020 GNB
7 Drew Brees (32) 46 2011 NOR
8 Aaron Rodgers (27) 45 2011 GNB
9 Dan Marino+ (24) 44 1986 MIA
10 Tom Brady (44) 43 2021 TAM
Drew Brees (33) 43 2012 NOR
12 Matthew Stafford (23) 41 2011 DET
Matthew Stafford (33) 41 2021 LAR
Kurt Warner+ (28) 41 1999 STL
15 Tom Brady (43) 40 2020 TAM
Andrew Luck (24) 40 2014 IND
Aaron Rodgers (32) 40 2016 GNB
Russell Wilson (31) 40 2020 SEA
19 Tom Brady (34) 39 2011 NWE
Drew Brees (34) 39 2013 NOR
Daunte Culpepper (27) 39 2004 MIN
Brett Favre+ (26) 39 1996 GNB
Andrew Luck (28) 39 2018 IND
Peyton Manning+ (38) 39 2014 DEN
Aaron Rodgers (28) 39 2012 GNB
Rank Player TD Year Tm
26 Brett Favre+ (25) 38 1995 GNB
Justin Herbert (23) 38 2021 LAC
Patrick Mahomes (24) 38 2020 KAN
Aaron Rodgers (30) 38 2014 GNB
Matt Ryan (31) 38 2016 ATL
31 Josh Allen (24) 37 2020 BUF
Drew Brees (37) 37 2016 NOR
Patrick Mahomes (25) 37 2021 KAN
Peyton Manning+ (36) 37 2012 DEN
Dak Prescott (28) 37 2021 DAL
Aaron Rodgers (37) 37 2021 GNB
37 Josh Allen (25) 36 2021 BUF
Steve Beuerlein (34) 36 1999 CAR
George Blanda+ (33) 36 1961 HOU
Tom Brady (33) 36 2010 NWE
Tom Brady (38) 36 2015 NWE
Lamar Jackson (22) 36 2019 BAL
Tony Romo (27) 36 2007 DAL
Y.A. Tittle+ (36) 36 1963 NYG
Kurt Warner+ (30) 36 2001 STL
Steve Young+ (36) 36 1998 SFO
47 Blake Bortles (23) 35 2015 JAX
Kirk Cousins (32) 35 2020 MIN
Brett Favre+ (27) 35 1997 GNB
Eli Manning (34) 35 2015 NYG
Rank Player TD Year Tm
Cam Newton (26) 35 2015 CAR
Carson Palmer (35) 35 2015 ARI
Matt Ryan (33) 35 2018 ATL
Russell Wilson (29) 35 2018 SEA
Steve Young+ (32) 35 1994 SFO
56 Tom Brady (35) 34 2012 NWE
Drew Brees (29) 34 2008 NOR
Drew Brees (30) 34 2009 NOR
Joe Burrow (24) 34 2021 CIN
Randall Cunningham (35) 34 1998
Lamonica (28) 34 1969 OAK
Philip Rivers (26) 34 2008 SDG
Ben Roethlisberger (36) 34 2018 PIT
Tony Romo (34) 34 2014 DAL
Russell Wilson (26) 34 2015 SEA
Russell Wilson (28) 34 2017 SEA
67 Tom Brady (37) 33 2014 NWE
Drew Brees (31) 33 2010 NOR
Drew Brees (35) 33 2014 NOR
Kirk Cousins (33) 33 2021 MIN
Daunte Culpepper (23) 33 2000 MIN
Andy Dalton (25) 33 2013 CIN
Brett Favre+ (24) 33 1994 GNB
Brett Favre+ (39) 33 2009 MIN
Dan Fouts+ (30) 33 1981 SDG
Rank Player TD Year Tm
Jim Kelly+ (31) 33 1991 BUF
Peyton Manning+ (24) 33 2000 IND
Peyton Manning+ (33) 33 2009 IND
Peyton Manning+ (34) 33 2010 IND
Warren Moon+ (33) 33 1990 HOU
Warren Moon+ (38) 33 1995 MIN
Philip Rivers (34) 33 2016 SDG
Ben Roethlisberger (38) 33 2020 PIT
Ryan Tannehill (32) 33 2020 TEN
Vinny Testaverde (32) 33 1996 BAL
Y.A. Tittle+ (35) 33 1962 NYG
Deshaun Watson (24) 33 2020 HOU
Carson Wentz (24) 33 2017 PHI
Jameis Winston (25) 33 2019 TAM
90 Tom Brady (40) 32 2017 NWE
Drew Brees (36) 32 2015 NOR
Drew Brees (39) 32 2018 NOR
Derek Carr (24) 32 2015 OAK
Lynn Dickey (33) 32 1983 GNB
Brett Favre+ (31) 32 2001 GNB
Brett Favre+ (33) 32 2003 GNB
Jeff Garcia (31) 32 2001 SFO
Jared Goff (23) 32 2018 LAR
Sonny Jurgensen+ (27) 32 1961 PHI
Dave Krieg (25) 32 1984 SEA
Rank Player TD Year Tm
Scott Mitchell (27) 32 1995 DET
Carson Palmer (25) 32 2005 CIN
Philip Rivers (31) 32 2013 SDG
Philip Rivers (36) 32 2018 LAC
Ben Roethlisberger (25) 32 2007 PIT
Ben Roethlisberger (32) 32 2014 PIT
Matt Ryan (27) 32 2012 ATL
Matthew Stafford (27) 32 2015 DET
Johnny Unitas+ (26) 32 1959 BAL
110 Steve Bartkowski (27) 31 1980 ATL
Jim Everett (25) 31 1988 RAM
Brett Favre+ (28) 31 1998 GNB
Ryan Fitzpatrick (32) 31 2015 NYJ
Jeff Garcia (30) 31 2000 SFO
Justin Herbert (22) 31 2020 LAC
Sonny Jurgensen+ (33) 31 1967 WAS
Andrew Luck (26) 31 2016 IND
Eli Manning (29) 31 2010 NYG
Peyton Manning+ (30) 31 2006 IND
Peyton Manning+ (31) 31 2007 IND
Donovan McNabb (27) 31 2004 PHI
Joe Montana+ (31) 31 1987 SFO
Babe Parilli (34) 31 1964 BOS
Philip Rivers (32) 31 2014 SDG
Aaron Rodgers (31) 31 2015 GNB
Rank Player TD Year Tm
Tony Romo (31) 31 2011 DAL
Tony Romo (33) 31 2013 DAL
Russell Wilson (30) 31 2019 SEA
129 Steve Bartkowski (28) 30 1981 ATL
John Brodie (30) 30 1965 SFO
Kirk Cousins (30) 30 2018 MIN
Randall Cunningham (27) 30 1990 PHI
Len Dawson+ (29) 30 1964 KAN
Brett Favre+ (34) 30 2004 GNB
Vince Ferragamo (26) 30 1980 RAM
Dan Fouts+ (29) 30 1980 SDG
Daryle Lamonica (26) 30 1967 OAK
Eli Manning (33) 30 2014 NYG
Dan Marino+ (23) 30 1985 MIA
Dan Marino+ (32) 30 1994 MIA
Dak Prescott (26) 30 2019 DAL
Philip Rivers (28) 30 2010 SDG
Aaron Rodgers (25) 30 2009 GNB
Brian Sipe (31) 30 1980 CLE
Kurt Warner+ (37) 30 2008
There are quite a few Lamonica threw 34 in 1969.
A high of 32 isn't special. Tannehill and Cousins have bested it. Scott Mitchell matched it. Jackson has beat it and supposedly he can't throw.
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Raiders Baby
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[quote=JRaider17 post_id=1061023]Not talking MVP voting in this instance, I'm just asking is 2016 Carr's play and stats considered a low bar for a QB?[/quote]Yes. Even in 2016 Carr wasn’t elite and had major flaws. His performance in 2016 was exciting because it looked like he was on his way, but even in 2016 I didn’t regard him as a finished product. It was more exciting because it felt like the start of something more so than because Carr was actually elite. That was supposed to be the beginning of the journey, not the climax. Now that we know that it’s his peak, yes it’s a low bar.
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BluegrassRaider
- Posts: 2,074
- Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:42 pm
[quote=Raiders Baby post_id=1061038]Yes. Even in 2016 Carr wasn’t elite and had major flaws. His performance in 2016 was exciting because it looked like he was on his way, but even in 2016 I didn’t regard him as a finished product. It was more exciting because it felt like the start of something more so than because Carr was actually elite. That was supposed to be the beginning of the journey, not the climax. Now that we know that it’s his peak, yes it’s a low bar.[/quote]EXACTLY! 2016 was an indicator of going in the right direction not a capstone!