Emo Andy Dalton after a trip to Sephora on Groundhog Day (Carr thread)

[RaiderandBulldog]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Raiders/stat ... 3878636548

[live.B.A.raida]

[quote=352Raider post_id=1053109]https://twitter.com/JTTheBrick/status/1 ... gr%5Etweet

[/quote]Hopefully they realized they’re fked with Mahomes, Wilson and Herbert in the division with Carr not being the answer as he’s not near their level of QB… and are trading him to the Colts for 1st round picks…

[KillerRaider30]

So what QB is available that bumps us from 4th best QB in the division?

We can compete with Carr imo.
You want to draft a qb this year? This year is not the year but you'll have to play him out for 4 years.

You want Mariota to start? He's worse than Carr and it probably means we're tanking this year and he'll require a raise probably up to 20m.

May as well not sign anyone and carry our cap over if we're in tank mode after trading Carr.

Maybe Trubisky? Thats a laugh

Whats you're game plan after trading Carr? Do you have one? Or is it just straight up hate for the man?

[NoThanksSir]

[quote=live.B.A.raida post_id=1053112]Hopefully they realized they’re fked with Mahomes, Wilson and Herbert in the division with Carr not being the answer as he’s not near their level of QB… and are trading him to the Colts for 1st round picks…[/quote]This is the ideal scenario. I was so-so on trading Carr until Wilson came into the division. Now I am skeptical of Wilson's overall success with the Broncos, but we probably have the 4th best QB in the division right now. The only logical move is to zig when everyone else is zagging. Let the rest of the AFC west pay 40+mill for a QB. Grab a rookie and make the rest of this team better.

[NoThanksSir]

[quote=KillerRaider30 post_id=1053114]So what QB is available that bumps us from 4th best QB in the division?

We can compete with Carr imo.
You want to draft a qb this year? This year is not the year but you'll have to play him out for 4 years.

You want Mariota to start? He's worse than Carr and it probably means we're tanking this year and he'll require a raise probably up to 20m.

May as well not sign anyone and carry our cap over if we're in tank mode after trading Carr.

Maybe Trubisky? Thats a laugh

Whats you're game plan after trading Carr? Do you have one? Or is it just straight up hate for the man?[/quote]I don't think it's a 1 to 1 comparison like you're making it out to be. The argument is this.

Carr

or

Carson Strong @ 22
20 Million in cap space this year, possibly 35+ next year without extending Carr
And draft picks. Maybe another 1st, maybe two first? Who knows what the Colts or Seahawks would give up.

Does the grand sum of the latter package make us more competitive than just Carr? You never know for sure, but given Carr's body of work I would take that gamble.

We could forgo drafting a QB altogether, roll with a vet, and aim for 2023 as well. The QB class is shaping up to be a good one in 2023. Could swing for the fences in a trade up. Keeping Carr means the plan is to hope he becomes better than he has been. Moving on from him opens up a ton of options for improving the team. And like I posted a page earlier, someone like Mac Jones who I'm not even particularly high on, performed favorably in comparison to Carr when you consider his salary. McDaniels has repeated this kind of success with marginal arm talents time and time again with Cassel, Garropolo, and now Jones.

[Willmark]

[quote=NoThanksSir post_id=1053116]I don't think it's a 1 to 1 comparison like you're making it out to be. The argument is this.

Carr

or

Carson Strong @ 22
20 Million in cap space this year, possibly 35+ next year without extending Carr
And draft picks. Maybe another 1st, maybe two first? Who knows what the Colts or Seahawks would give up.

Does the grand sum of the latter package make us more competitive than just Carr? You never know for sure, but given Carr's body of work I would take that gamble.

We could forgo drafting a QB altogether, roll with a vet, and aim for 2023 as well. The QB class is shaping up to be a good one in 2023. Could swing for the fences in a trade up. Keeping Carr means the plan is to hope he becomes better than he has been. Moving on from him opens up a ton of options for improving the team. And like I posted a page earlier, someone like Mac Jones who I'm not even particularly high on, performed favorably in comparison to Carr when you consider his salary. McDaniels has repeated this kind of success with marginal arm talents time and time again with Cassel, Garropolo, and now Jones.[/quote]Strong at #22 is my preference as well. I’ve seen some mocks that have him going at (around) #100. Highly unlikely he makes it out of round 1.

[NoThanksSir]

[quote=Willmark post_id=1053118]Strong at #22 is my preference as well. I’ve seen some mocks that have him going at (around) #100. Highly unlikely he makes it out of round 1.[/quote]He reminds me a lot of Carr in that he is an arm talent in a small conference with little experience or success in big games against top competition. The scouting report is eerily similar to Carr's strengths/weaknesses. Pocket passer, inconsistent footwork, doesn't throw picks. But he will cost a fraction of what Carr will, and with a stable coaching situation could possibly surpass Carr down the road.

[Toons]

My God, I want to borrow the Carr fanatics rosy colored lenses for a minute and watch some raiders games. Why we viewing Carr likes he's Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers and untouchable and we cannot do better than him.

[Attyla]

[quote=Toons post_id=1053127]My God, I want to borrow the Carr fanatics rosy colored lenses for a minute and watch some raiders games. Why we viewing Carr likes he's Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers and untouchable and we cannot do better than him.[/quote]we actually may not be able to do better than him right now. The view that he is untouchable or a top 5-10 QB in the league flies in the face of reality but that does not mean there is a better option. I think to really get the scope, you have to be able to see the big picture. Can we get worse than Carr and still improve? That is, in my opinion, the real crux of the issue. If we could drop in the quality of play of the QB on a less expensive contract and improve other areas to offset that loss of quality it would make sense to do that. But it is much harder to fix many areas of need quickly even if you have the available money to get the quality pieces through FA. That is where our former GM's have done us such an injustice. In Gruden's desire to build his perfect offense, he left much of the cupboard bare in other areas. Trading for multiple WRs and other pieces on offense has created a vacuum that is going to take time to fix. So either we take a step back and lose more games for a while to ditch Carr, or we have to face it that the time spent to fix other areas with Carr will be a bit slower because of the money he ties up, especially if we franchise him at the end of next year or god forbid extend him this off season.

[Willmark]

[quote=KillerRaider30 post_id=1053114]So what QB is available that bumps us from 4th best QB in the division?

We can compete with Carr imo.
You want to draft a qb this year? This year is not the year but you'll have to play him out for 4 years.

You want Mariota to start? He's worse than Carr and it probably means we're tanking this year and he'll require a raise probably up to 20m.

May as well not sign anyone and carry our cap over if we're in tank mode after trading Carr.

Maybe Trubisky? Thats a laugh

Whats you're game plan after trading Carr? Do you have one? Or is it just straight up hate for the man?[/quote]Note only the first paragraph is directed to you.

Legitimate question. Have you considered the possibility that with Carr at the helm there isn’t any competing in the division now? Because whether like that idea or not, dismiss it outright, what have you; that is a possible outcome.

The fall back has been we beat Denver twice last year and split with LAC; KC destroyed us so at least folks admit to that, because well they can’t really deny it.

While division games are tough just because we beat Denver and LAC doesn’t mean it will continue. Hell we might win against KC.

Sure it’s possible but I’ve yet to read on this site from those that so stridently support Carr no matter what admit that yes, things can get worse in the division. At best I’ve heard a lot about “pants wetting” or some other crap. It’s as if there is this weird reality they inhabit where things only improve, and there is no possibility of regression.

[Willmark]

[quote=Attyla post_id=1053138]we actually may not be able to do better than him right now. The view that he is untouchable or a top 5-10 QB in the league flies in the face of reality but that does not mean there is a better option. I think to really get the scope, you have to be able to see the big picture. Can we get worse than Carr and still improve? That is, in my opinion, the real crux of the issue. If we could drop in the quality of play of the QB on a less expensive contract and improve other areas to offset that loss of quality it would make sense to do that. But it is much harder to fix many areas of need quickly even if you have the available money to get the quality pieces through FA. That is where our former GM's have done us such an injustice. In Gruden's desire to build his perfect offense, he left much of the cupboard bare in other areas. Trading for multiple WRs and other pieces on offense has created a vacuum that is going to take time to fix. So either we take a step back and lose more games for a while to ditch Carr, or we have to face it that the time spent to fix other areas with Carr will be a bit slower because of the money he ties up, especially if we franchise him at the end of next year or god forbid extend him this off season.[/quote]Salient point in bold.

Here is where I and others are scratching our heads at the notion “this isn’t a rebuild” decreed by Mark and those drinking the kool aide.

It isn’t? What signs point to this team becoming a perennial powerhouse? Setting aside our QB issue as you note there are a lot of holes on this team.

[NoThanksSir]

@willmark - Bingo. I think we relied on beating the Broncos and competing with the Chargers in order to even be in the wildcard discussion. We have not been remotely good enough to legitimately challenge KC for the division.

I think Wilson is not going to get the Broncos to the playoffs in the AFC with the team and resources they have. Much like how I feel about Carr + a large contract will make it substantially difficult to build a contender. We are now competing with the Broncos when before they were a pushover. I don't like the Chargers HC but that is a good roster and I think they are on the rise as well. Can we keep up in this division with Carr?

[GoodTimeCharlie]

The stupidity in arguing to keep and even extend Carr, while also arguing that we need to raise the talent EVERYWHERE else. Reminds me of the “money doesn’t grow on trees” talk any parent eventually has to have with a child.

Btw, I’ve posted this before, but no matter how many players with better numbers at much cheaper prices are posted in this forum. Carr navel-gazers refuse to see it.

Mitchell Trubusky 29 Wins and 21 Losses.

As in more wins than losses. For the Chicago Bears. A team no Raider fan will say is a better team than the Raiders.

[GoodTimeCharlie]

[quote=NoThanksSir post_id=1053143]@willmark - Bingo. I think we relied on beating the Broncos and competing with the Chargers in order to even be in the wildcard discussion. We have not been remotely good enough to legitimately challenge KC for the division.

I think Wilson is not going to get the Broncos to the playoffs in the AFC with the team and resources they have. Much like how I feel about Carr + a large contract will make it substantially difficult to build a contender. We are now competing with the Broncos when before they were a pushover. I don't like the Chargers HC but that is a good roster and I think they are on the rise as well. Can we keep up in this division with Carr?[/quote]Of course not.

As long as Carr is the foundation-stone that the offense is built off of, we will falter fail fumble fuckit.

The day he’s no longer stealing money from the Raiders, but instead, stealing money from parishioners. Well, it will be a glorious day indeed. Hallelujah!!!

[signal]

[quote=GoodTimeCharlie post_id=1053145]The stupidity in arguing to keep and even extend Carr, while also arguing that we need to raise the talent EVERYWHERE else. Reminds me of the “money doesn’t grow on trees” talk any parent eventually has to have with a child.

Btw, I’ve posted this before, but no matter how many players with better numbers at much cheaper prices are posted in this forum. Carr navel-gazers refuse to see it.

Mitchell Trubusky 29 Wins and 21 Losses.

As in more wins than losses. For the Chicago Bears. A team no Raider fan will say is a better team than the Raiders.[/quote]Agree. It is really silly to hear those stating that Carr should be extended and that Ziegler needs to go and get this guy and that guy and this guy...and improve the defense....like the cap did not exist.

I have yet to hear one damn compelling argument that Carr is worth $40 million. Not one. I guess they can point to another player being GROSSLY overpaid and suggest that the Raiders should join the stupid club and be yet another team saddled with a player making mounds of dough crippling the cap while putting up at best...average numbers.

[Jeremyturner1976]

Can't forget -
Always playing his worst games of the season in November and December - always.

Or

Putting up a sub 70 passer rating in a playoff game.