Emo Andy Dalton after a trip to Sephora on Groundhog Day (Carr thread)

[RaiderandBulldog]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Raiders/stat ... 3878636548

[deathstar]

[quote=LayneStaley post_id=1049517]If Stafford can win it all so can Carr.[/quote]Exactly, Stafford played quite well but he put Carr like numbers. It is possible for Derek to win a championship. The point is all QB, Brady, Montana, Aikman, Elway, all needed a good team around them to win a championship.

[LayneStaley]

[quote=black soul post_id=1049524]The Rams went all in for this season and already had Aaron Donald. Usually that ends up in cap hell and mortgaging the future eventually, see the Saints and what they are facing for example. You mortgage the future for a short run or build around a Qb on a rookie deal are common strategies.
I have a flip side to your argument, how much talent does this Qb need around him to carry him to a Super Bowl and what would be your plan for doing so?[/quote]I would build this team on the Defensive side into hopefully a top 5 D, I would then install a real power running, control the clock type of offense. Carr can make 3-4 “winning plays” per game, with a top end D and ground attack that would be enough.

The waste of assets by this franchise over the past 2 decades is the real reason we haven’t been successful, hopefully that changes with this regime.

[black soul]

[quote=LayneStaley post_id=1049529]I would build this team on the Defensive side into hopefully a top 5 D, I would then install a real power running, control the clock type of offense. Carr can make 3-4 “winning plays” per game, with a top end D and ground attack that would be enough.[/quote]How do you build a top 5 D from here especially if you extend the current QB and pick at no. 22 this season? Also, how do you afford top end O-linemen for that power running game with a Qb on a fat contract? This QB had one of the highest paid O-lines for much of his career on .the Raiders and people bitched about the defense when big money was being spent to protect him.

[JP808]

[quote=LayneStaley post_id=1049525]Thing is I’m not even a Carr guy but the people saying just grab someone in the crapshoot known as the draft and we will be better are clueless imo. Unless ur going after Rodgers or Watson everyone else available would be a down grade or lateral move. HORRIBLE draft class and shitty FA QB class.[/quote]You said what I was thinking more eloquently. There is no one available, for a decent price, to replace Carr. If they draft a QB cool, let him sit and learn under Carr. But to find a starter now that can improve upon Carr’s production will be hard to find at this juncture.

[LayneStaley]

[quote=Jeremyturner1976 post_id=1049526]We just need OBJ, Kupp, Von Miller, Aaron Donald, and Jalen Ramsey. Start signing them up.

Stafford also has always been a solid playoff QB. 6 TDs to 1 int, 97 passer rating for his 3 games. Carr 1 TD, 1 int, 69 passer rating, 54% completions.

So we will probably also need a lot more talent than the Rams had on this run. If we just add a top 5 run game we got this, oh yeah, and Derek can't fumble.

So basically the Joe Montana 49er's roster. Easy. Much easier than trying to improve the position right?

We have maybe 2 of 22 players so far...[/quote]Always a solid playoff qb? He was 0-3 until he got to the Rams and 2 of them were blowouts. It’s amazing what a good balanced roster can do .

[Jeremyturner1976]

[quote=JP808 post_id=1049531]You said what I was thinking more eloquently. There is no one available, for a decent price, to replace Carr. If they draft a QB cool, let him sit and learn under Carr. But to find a starter now that can improve upon Carr’s production will be hard to find at this juncture.[/quote]Scale of difficulty:
Replace 23 TDs, 14 ints, 13 interceptions with 30 million in cap and a first round rookie.

Or

Become a top 3 offense and top 5 defense able to carry an overpaid QB. Note: We are currently the 26th ranked defense and 14th ranked offense and already have 30 plus million sitting on the bench next year.

[LayneStaley]

[quote=black soul post_id=1049530]How do you build a top 5 D from here especially if you extend the current QB and pick at no. 22 this season? Also, how do you afford top end O-linemen for that power running game with a Qb on a fat contract? This QB had one of the highest paid O-lines for much of his career on .the Raiders and people bitched about the defense that couldn't afford good players.[/quote]There are several ways to structure contracts and manipulate the cap, there are smart trades to be made and gems to find in later rounds. Two decades of losing comes straight from the top. Shitty ownership, shitty GMs, shitty draft picks, shitty FA signings, shitty trades, shitty coaches. That is the problem, good management would of had a MUCH better roster around Carr a LONG time ago. We can only hope we finally got it right this time.

[Jeremyturner1976]

[quote=LayneStaley post_id=1049532]Always a solid playoff qb? He was 0-3 until he got to the Rams and 2 of them were blowouts. It’s amazing what a good balanced roster can do .[/quote]I was looking at Burrows stats, my fault.

Stafford playoffs
13 TDs 6 ints 99 rate 67% completions

Carr playoffs
1 TD 1 int 69 rate 54% completions

Garrapolo playoffs
4 TD 6 ints 74 rate 60% completions.

Guess which one played like Garrapolo? Carr is Garrapolo, not Stafford and he has never once been on Staffords tier.

The 49er's have Trey Lance because they have been to the big game with an average QB. It is a fool's errand. The Rams dropped Goff also and recovered. The Bengals were 2-14 two years ago.

Glad Mark is GM. No risk ever, playing it safe like Layne. Lots of .500 ball. Good times ahead.

[LayneStaley]

[quote=Jeremyturner1976 post_id=1049535]Scale of difficulty:
Replace 23 TDs, 14 ints, 13 interceptions with 30 million in cap and a first round rookie.

Or

Become a top 3 offense and top 5 defense able to carry an overpaid QB. Note: We are currently the 26th ranked defense and 14th ranked offense and already have 30 plus million sitting on the bench next year.[/quote]This ^ is a perfect example of horrible ownership and management. The reason we haven’t been successful. We start a rookie next year we will be bottom of the league in offense and probably worse on D because of the field position said rookie will be placing our D in weekly. There are no saviors in this draft.

[Jeremyturner1976]

[quote=LayneStaley post_id=1049540]This ^ is a perfect example of horrible ownership and management. The reason we haven’t been successful. We start a rookie next year we will be bottom of the league in offense and probably worse on D because of the field position said rookie will be placing our D in weekly. There are no saviors in this draft.[/quote]We are picking 22 and losing 15+ million in talent signing Carr this offseason. You tell me how close we are? Just a QB away?

How about the draft after that, how about trading for a Stafford once we need him. Once we have multiple studs and have to settle for average.

We are so far from the Rams right now. We need to stock the cupboards, not pay a QB like we are a QB away. Carr is on contract next year, make him play it - then decide. The guy was 18-20th ranked 3 of the last 5 years and choked in the playoffs.

30 million brings in lots of talent and turnover. Still looking forward to next season but putting all of our hopes in a long term Carr contract is buying magic beans.

When we rebuild again in 4 years going nowhere, Carr choking in another playoff one and done game - remind me how poor my decision was then would ya?

[black soul]

[quote=LayneStaley post_id=1049536]There are several ways to structure contracts and manipulate the cap, there are smart trades to be made and gems to find in later rounds. Two decades of losing comes straight from the top. Shitty ownership, shitty GMs, shitty draft picks, shitty FA signings, shitty trades, shitty coaches. That is the problem, good management would of had a MUCH better roster around Carr a LONG time ago. We can only hope we finally got it right this time.[/quote]Well, to manipulate the cap and give up high draft picks for a 1-2 year run where would you start? Who would you have the team target to trade for to replicate the Rams success? What would finally be the requisite amount of overall team talent to truly judge this Qb?
About shitty ownership and all that, the Bengals won 6 games the past two seasons and that franchise has never won a championship, they are a small market team and they just played a competitive game in the Super Bowl with a Qb in his second season coming off an ACL tear in his rookie season, I don't see them making excuses.

[Jeremyturner1976]

[quote=black soul post_id=1049546]Well, to manipulate the cap and give up high draft picks for a 1-2 year run where would you start? Who would you have the team target to trade for to replicate the Rams success? What would finally be the requisite amount of overall team talent to truly judge this Qb?
About shitty ownership and all that, the Bengals won 6 games the past two seasons and that franchise has never won a championship, they are a small market team and they just played a competitive game in the Super Bowl with a Qb in his second season coming off an ACL tear in his rookie season, I don't see them making excuses.[/quote]The Rams brought in Stafford over Goff.
The Bengals brought in Burrows over Dalton.
The Chiefs brought in Mahommes over Smith.
The Buccaneers brought in Brady over Winston.

"Horrible management" - Layne Staley.

[LayneStaley]

Watching the Super Bowl has got a few too worked up around here. Before burning down one of the few decent teams we have had in 20 years and starting over how about taking a step of the ledge and seeing what McDaniels and “new management” can do. Everyone on this board is frustrated, trying to attack others who see it differently doesn’t help prove your point, it just makes you seem “emotional”.

[LayneStaley]

[quote=black soul post_id=1049546]Well, to manipulate the cap and give up high draft picks for a 1-2 year run where would you start? Who would you have the team target to trade for to replicate the Rams success? What would finally be the requisite amount of overall team talent to truly judge this Qb?
About shitty ownership and all that, the Bengals won 6 games the past two seasons and that franchise has never won a championship, they are a small market team and they just played a competitive game in the Super Bowl with a Qb in his second season coming off an ACL tear in his rookie season, I don't see them making excuses.[/quote] I didn’t realize Joe Burrow was in this draft, my bad. Of course we should draft him then. Who are you replacing Carr with? Everyone whining about Carr should answer that or wait to post till they can.

[LayneStaley]

[quote=Jeremyturner1976 post_id=1049548]The Rams brought in Stafford over Goff.
The Bengals brought in Burrows over Dalton.
The Chiefs brought in Mahommes over Smith.
The Buccaneers brought in Brady over Winston.

"Horrible management" - Layne Staley.[/quote]Half of your examples were excellent draft choices by competent management so we agree.