Emo Andy Dalton after a trip to Sephora on Groundhog Day (Carr thread)
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RaiderandBulldog
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EZ Street
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I don't know why, but I have a hunch that we see a completely different team next year. That for better or worse, we just closed the book ok the Carr era. Could be a few more years until we are playoff contenders again.
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billy piton
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[quote=signal post_id=1038864]Carr has, is and will always be an average QB. I would rather the franchise be smart and find a cheaper version of an average QB so they have the cap room to do as you say, improve other aspects of the team.
Do you really think Derek will sign a team friendly contract? He will again be asking for top dollar and I do fear that Mark will give it to him.[/quote]if he wants more than 30m, i'd trade him. otherwise, they should extend him and try not to whiff on every single first round pick and almost every free agent signing. if there is a chance to upgrade on a qb position of course, they should do it, but taking a qb project in the 1st round with this o line and wr group would very likely end up in disaster. also, we are not "rodgers away" from sb, and paying king's ransom to get him for probably two -three years at best with monstrous contract, will surely prevent us to build a sb caliber team.
carr is not elite and shouldn't be paid like one. but he is above average qb that you can win with. he'd likely need more support than the elite guy, but it's not like it's impossible. it's probably way harder to find an elite guy. or even above average qb on a rookie deal. with two more good drafts we could be in a pretty good shape.
Do you really think Derek will sign a team friendly contract? He will again be asking for top dollar and I do fear that Mark will give it to him.[/quote]if he wants more than 30m, i'd trade him. otherwise, they should extend him and try not to whiff on every single first round pick and almost every free agent signing. if there is a chance to upgrade on a qb position of course, they should do it, but taking a qb project in the 1st round with this o line and wr group would very likely end up in disaster. also, we are not "rodgers away" from sb, and paying king's ransom to get him for probably two -three years at best with monstrous contract, will surely prevent us to build a sb caliber team.
carr is not elite and shouldn't be paid like one. but he is above average qb that you can win with. he'd likely need more support than the elite guy, but it's not like it's impossible. it's probably way harder to find an elite guy. or even above average qb on a rookie deal. with two more good drafts we could be in a pretty good shape.
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heavyD
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[quote=signal post_id=1038864]Carr has, is and will always be an average QB. I would rather the franchise be smart and find a cheaper version of an average QB so they have the cap room to do as you say, improve other aspects of the team.
Do you really think Derek will sign a team friendly contract? He will again be asking for top dollar and I do fear that Mark will give it to him.[/quote]Wrong again. He's above average. He's going to probably retire as a top 15-20 QB in a lot of statistical categories. Average QB's don't do that. Some of you fans don't seem to pay attention to other half of the league that wishes they had Carr as their QB. The Colts gave up a 1st round pick for Wentz and his contract. The Panthers traded a 2nd round pick for Darnold. Things can be a lot worse.
Do you really think Derek will sign a team friendly contract? He will again be asking for top dollar and I do fear that Mark will give it to him.[/quote]Wrong again. He's above average. He's going to probably retire as a top 15-20 QB in a lot of statistical categories. Average QB's don't do that. Some of you fans don't seem to pay attention to other half of the league that wishes they had Carr as their QB. The Colts gave up a 1st round pick for Wentz and his contract. The Panthers traded a 2nd round pick for Darnold. Things can be a lot worse.
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Xramfan
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[quote=heavyD post_id=1038875]Wrong again. He's above average. He's going to probably retire as a top 15-20 QB in a lot of statistical categories. Average QB's don't do that. Some of you fans don't seem to pay attention to other half of the league that wishes they had Carr as their QB. The Colts gave up a 1st round pick for Wentz and his contract. The Panthers traded a 2nd round pick for Darnold. Things can be a lot worse.[/quote]57-71 is not above average
Al Davis said,”Just Win Baby”
Not “Things can be a lot worse “ baby
Al Davis said,”Just Win Baby”
Not “Things can be a lot worse “ baby
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Raidernation1979
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[quote=heavyD post_id=1038875]Wrong again. He's above average. He's going to probably retire as a top 15-20 QB in a lot of statistical categories. Average QB's don't do that. Some of you fans don't seem to pay attention to other half of the league that wishes they had Carr as their QB. The Colts gave up a 1st round pick for Wentz and his contract. The Panthers traded a 2nd round pick for Darnold. Things can be a lot worse.[/quote]He’s average. Things can also be a lot better. Just because they can get worse is a dumb reason to not try to upgrade.
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Willmark
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[quote=heavyD post_id=1038875]Wrong again. He's above average. [/quote]How so?
Do you have stats to back that up?
Do you have stats to back that up?
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heavyD
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[quote=Xramfan post_id=1038880]57-71 is not above average
Al Davis said,”Just Win Baby”
Not “Things can be a lot worse “ baby[/quote]Win/loss record is a team stat. Herbert has been a lot better than his win/loss record would indicate.
Al Davis said,”Just Win Baby”
Not “Things can be a lot worse “ baby[/quote]Win/loss record is a team stat. Herbert has been a lot better than his win/loss record would indicate.
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heavyD
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[quote=Raidernation1979 post_id=1038881]He’s average. Things can also be a lot better. Just because they can get worse is a dumb reason to not try to upgrade.[/quote]Nobody said they shouldn't try to upgrade. The problem is that 20 teams would like to upgrade the QB position. It's much, much easier said than done. I have yet to hear anyone suggest a plan that is better than keeping Carr. Rodgers and Watson aren't coming to Las Vegas and Wilson is a long, long shot and he's somewhat on the decline.
[quote=signal post_id=1038887]
IF Carr asks for something in the neighborhood of 37 - 40 million a year....would you still want Carr extended? Do you think the Raiders would still be better off with him?[/quote]That's hypothetical and we aren't there yet. I'm taking things a year at a time here.
[quote=signal post_id=1038887]
IF Carr asks for something in the neighborhood of 37 - 40 million a year....would you still want Carr extended? Do you think the Raiders would still be better off with him?[/quote]That's hypothetical and we aren't there yet. I'm taking things a year at a time here.
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signal
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[quote=heavyD post_id=1038875]Wrong again. He's above average. He's going to probably retire as a top 15-20 QB in a lot of statistical categories. Average QB's don't do that. Some of you fans don't seem to pay attention to other half of the league that wishes they had Carr as their QB. The Colts gave up a 1st round pick for Wentz and his contract. The Panthers traded a 2nd round pick for Darnold. Things can be a lot worse.[/quote]What stats? The stat that matters most and the one that actually determines wins and losses is points scored. Are you trying to tell me tha Carr is some TD machine?
When he retires he will most probably be that QB that lost more games than any other in the history of the game.
Sorry but look at his TD to INT ratio...and if you want throw in his fumbles and you still think he is above average?
IF Carr asks for something in the neighborhood of 37 - 40 million a year....would you still want Carr extended? Do you think the Raiders would still be better off with him?
Asking for a friend. :)
When he retires he will most probably be that QB that lost more games than any other in the history of the game.
Sorry but look at his TD to INT ratio...and if you want throw in his fumbles and you still think he is above average?
IF Carr asks for something in the neighborhood of 37 - 40 million a year....would you still want Carr extended? Do you think the Raiders would still be better off with him?
Asking for a friend. :)
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Willmark
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[quote=heavyD post_id=1038883]Win/loss record is a team stat. Herbert has been a lot better than his win/loss record would indicate.[/quote]Then tell us how he is above average, surely there is some metric even if we set aside the inconvenient truth of his W/L record?
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Attyla
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you may be right and statistically he will be top 20 in several categories. But many of those he will in company of played in eras when defenses could actually play defense. His season this year was his best overall year of his career, but I did not consider him top 10. Close but not top 10. His fumbles continue to plague us, his decision making is questionable a lot of the time.
Watching the game yesterday, it was apparent that Joe was the better player in year 2. The final play was a perfect example of him locking onto a player which cost us a chance at a comeback. His red zone play was horrible.
Like I said earlier, the team was designed not to have Carr win games but was designed to have us run the ball. Play calling was terrible but that does not excuse execution.
Watching the game yesterday, it was apparent that Joe was the better player in year 2. The final play was a perfect example of him locking onto a player which cost us a chance at a comeback. His red zone play was horrible.
Like I said earlier, the team was designed not to have Carr win games but was designed to have us run the ball. Play calling was terrible but that does not excuse execution.
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heavyD
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[quote=Attyla post_id=1038889]you may be right and statistically he will be top 20 in several categories. But many of those he will in company of played in eras when defenses could actually play defense. His season this year was his best overall year of his career, but I did not consider him top 10. Close but not top 10. His fumbles continue to plague us, his decision making is questionable a lot of the time.
Watching the game yesterday, it was apparent that Joe was the better player in year 2. The final play was a perfect example of him locking onto a player which cost us a chance at a comeback. His red zone play was horrible.
Like I said earlier, the team was designed not to have Carr win games but was designed to have us run the ball. Play calling was terrible but that does not excuse execution.[/quote]Pointless comparison. Joe was a 1st overall pick and has generational potential. Unless you want to go back to the perennial 4-12 days unearthing a QB like that in the draft isn't an option.
Watching the game yesterday, it was apparent that Joe was the better player in year 2. The final play was a perfect example of him locking onto a player which cost us a chance at a comeback. His red zone play was horrible.
Like I said earlier, the team was designed not to have Carr win games but was designed to have us run the ball. Play calling was terrible but that does not excuse execution.[/quote]Pointless comparison. Joe was a 1st overall pick and has generational potential. Unless you want to go back to the perennial 4-12 days unearthing a QB like that in the draft isn't an option.
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signal
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[quote=billy piton post_id=1038873]if he wants more than 30m, i'd trade him. [/quote]OK, then. We are in agreement.
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chucker
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[quote=heavyD post_id=1038890]Pointless comparison. Joe was a 1st overall pick and has generational potential. Unless you want to go back to the perennial 4-12 days unearthing a QB like that in the draft isn't an option.[/quote]It's not pointless to compare our QB to the QB on the other side, even if it seems unfair because ours is inferior. There are also much better QBs than ours who weren't first overall picks, and some who weren't even top 10 picks. IMO we likely stick with Carr in 2022 as our QB but I hope we don't give him an extension, and I hope we at least try to draft the next guy if there's an opportunity for a guy who may turn into something.
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Willmark
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[quote=signal post_id=1038887]What stats? The stat that matters most and the one that actually determines wins and losses is points scored. Are you trying to tell me tha Carr is some TD machine?
When he retires he will most probably be that QB that lost more games than any other in the history of the game.
Sorry but look at his TD to INT ratio...and if you want throw in his fumbles and you still think he is above average?
IF Carr asks for something in the neighborhood of 37 - 40 million a year....would you still want Carr extended? Do you think the Raiders would still be better off with him?
Asking for a friend. :)[/quote]Its because he can't answer it, best defense and (quite smart) to deny the existence of a QBs W/L record. Although I do see comeback wins posted by one of his biggest supporters after one happens, so which is it? Just pointing this out in general mind you.
Can't be this:
TD to INT ratio of less than 2 to 1 in 2021 (thereabouts) (23 TDs vs 13 INTs)
23 Total Passing TDs vs 27 turnovers in 2021
Averages around 1or 2 TDs a game with 3 being a rarity, 4 hardly ever and 5 never.
Doesn't run for TDs
Near the top of the all time fumble table for so few years in the league relatively speaking.
I'm all ears if someone has some sort of metric on what constitutes above average for Carr.
When he retires he will most probably be that QB that lost more games than any other in the history of the game.
Sorry but look at his TD to INT ratio...and if you want throw in his fumbles and you still think he is above average?
IF Carr asks for something in the neighborhood of 37 - 40 million a year....would you still want Carr extended? Do you think the Raiders would still be better off with him?
Asking for a friend. :)[/quote]Its because he can't answer it, best defense and (quite smart) to deny the existence of a QBs W/L record. Although I do see comeback wins posted by one of his biggest supporters after one happens, so which is it? Just pointing this out in general mind you.
Can't be this:
TD to INT ratio of less than 2 to 1 in 2021 (thereabouts) (23 TDs vs 13 INTs)
23 Total Passing TDs vs 27 turnovers in 2021
Averages around 1or 2 TDs a game with 3 being a rarity, 4 hardly ever and 5 never.
Doesn't run for TDs
Near the top of the all time fumble table for so few years in the league relatively speaking.
I'm all ears if someone has some sort of metric on what constitutes above average for Carr.