Emo Andy Dalton after a trip to Sephora on Groundhog Day (Carr thread)

[RaiderandBulldog]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Raiders/stat ... 3878636548

[KennyPowers]

[quote=Attyla post_id=1032659]oh and why should we not compare Carr to Rodgers....he says he channels Kobe Bryant so his own standard is elite, why should we not measure him against his own views?[/quote]Because the Packers have actually surrounded Rodgers with talent thought his career. Something the Raiders have failed to do year in and year out.
By your measuring stick. every team should trade the QB every year because they are not Tom Brady. It isn't fair for other franchises to compare the QB to Tom Brady. Why? Because there will never be another one.

[KennyPowers]

[quote=Attyla post_id=1032685]I just love the mentality that says it is not fair to compare a player to the best at his position. It use to be players were compared to our guys. Who do we compare him to now? Sorry, Bubby Brister is out of the league. I want us to compare him to the best there is. What other measuring stick is there for us than aspiring to the best there is? Are we saying he cannot become the best there is? If that is the case we should continue to get new options. The Chiefs had a guy who got them to the playoffs and still pursued better. And now they are a favorite to represent the AFC in the super bowl.

So feel free to compare him to Brister or whatever other also ran you can find. I want the best so I will constantly compare our guys to the best.

You hear that Darren? Kick that brother of yours in the ass and get him motivated to get us to the playoffs!!![/quote]The Chiefs had a playoff roster before they drafted Mahomes. They Raiders never had a playoff roster. So once again your argument is flawed. If we have a playoff roster and Carr keeps failing in the playoffs because of bad play. You need to upgrade an move on. You would have no argument from me, But to assume that he sucks as a QB or a loser because he is the leader of th worst franchise in the NFL in unwarranted.

[raiders1988xyz]

[quote=KennyPowers post_id=1032707]The Chiefs had a playoff roster before they drafted Mahomes. They Raiders never had a playoff roster. So once again your argument is flawed. If we have a playoff roster and Carr keeps failing in the playoffs because of bad play. You need to upgrade an move on. You would have no argument from me, But to assume that he sucks as a QB or a loser because he is the leader of th worst franchise in the NFL in unwarranted.[/quote]who fault is that?

the raiders organization put together a shit coaching and bad drafting where a fans can draft better on espn mock draft

[Attyla]

[quote=KennyPowers post_id=1032704]Because the Packers have actually surrounded Rodgers with talent thought his career. Something the Raiders have failed to do year in and year out.[/quote]I am not evaluating him based on results. I am evaluating him based on HIS performance. I am not concerned about the talent around him. I am viewing him based on what he does with the talent he has. You seem to think evaluating a guy based on a comparison to the best is doing a disservice. I disagree, and the truly great one's want to be measured against the best.

Greatness finds a way, and Rodgers and Brady and Montana and Unitas and on and on found a way.

[Attyla]

[quote=KennyPowers post_id=1032707]The Chiefs had a playoff roster before they drafted Mahomes. They Raiders never had a playoff roster. So once again your argument is flawed. If we have a playoff roster and Carr keeps failing in the playoffs because of bad play. You need to upgrade an move on. You would have no argument from me, But to assume that he sucks as a QB or a loser because he is the leader of th worst franchise in the NFL in unwarranted.[/quote]nope, wrong. You always seek to improve. You are enjoying making excuses but I am not going to remove my standards simply because of excuses.

[vtraider]

[quote=Attyla post_id=1032669]it does, his Mamba schtick was out there as comparing to the best of the best

Besides, why should we not compare him to the best in football....unless we do not want the best in football?[/quote]Maybe he was comparing his jump shot?

[KennyPowers]

[quote=Attyla post_id=1032715]nope, wrong. You always seek to improve. You are enjoying making excuses but I am not going to remove my standards simply because of excuses.[/quote]What am I wrong about. The chiefs were not a playoff team before they drafted Mahomes or that the Raiders have had a playoff roster each and every year Carr has been the QB.
No current QB or past Qb could have guided any of those Raider teams to a Super Bowl. Not one

[Attyla]

[quote=KennyPowers post_id=1032741]What am I wrong about. The chiefs were not a playoff team before they drafted Mahomes or that the Raiders have had a playoff roster each and every year Carr has been the QB.
No current QB or past Qb could have guided any of those Raider teams to a Super Bowl. Not one[/quote]well, first you said Carr was the QB of the worst franchise in the NFL, second you said he was the QB of a team that was not a playoff team (2016?) so there are those flaws to your argument. Smith took them to the playoffs and they still moved up to get Mahomes. We should do everything we can to improve the single most important position on the field, either by coaching him up or replacing him with a better option.

Next?

[KennyPowers]

[quote=Attyla post_id=1032714]I am not evaluating him based on results. I am evaluating him based on HIS performance. I am not concerned about the talent around him. I am viewing him based on what he does with the talent he has. You seem to think evaluating a guy based on a comparison to the best is doing a disservice. I disagree, and the truly great one's want to be measured against the best.

Greatness finds a way, and Rodgers and Brady and Montana and Unitas and on and on found a way.[/quote]Who is calling him great? You cannot measure great QB that are on great teams to QB who play on shit teams. Great QB are great because they are surrounded by talent. If you are expecting greatness out of every future QB you will be waiting a long f[raiders_icon]cking time. You cannot win consistently in the NFL with bad coaching, bad drafts and bad talent. To think otherwise is 100% wrong.


How much longer will the Dolphins wait for the next Dan Marino. Should they run every Qb out of town in two to three years because they aren't Marino.

[Attyla]

[quote=KennyPowers post_id=1032745]Who is calling him great? You cannot measure great QB that are on great teams to QB who play on shit teams. Great QB are great because they are surrounded by talent. If you are expecting greatness out of every future QB you will be waiting a long f[raiders_icon]cking time. You cannot win consistently in the NFL with bad coaching, bad drafts and bad talent. To think otherwise is 100% wrong.[/quote]what the f[raiders_icon]ck are you talking about. You measure the QB based on the metrics beyond the wins and losses. Greatness is not based on others, greatness is based on the person. Marino played on some pretty shitty teams but he still elevated others to greatness around him. Brady did not always have great weapons but made those around him great. This is not about wins and loses, this is about how much you want to win. It is about will. Will Carr sell out to win? He checked down on fourth down in a scenario where if he tried he might have won. And he defended that decision. Greatness sells out to win. Period.

[deathstar]

So it is ok to compare Derek Carr to Hall of Fame QB because you have "higher standards." But it is ok to draft bum players every year for the rest of our lives. This is the loser menality the franchise has. The Raiders have been the worst franchise before Derek Carr and most like after Derek Carr.

[KennyPowers]

[quote=Attyla post_id=1032751]what the f[raiders_icon]ck are you talking about. You measure the QB based on the metrics beyond the wins and losses. Greatness is not based on others, greatness is based on the person. Marino played on some pretty shitty teams but he still elevated others to greatness around him. Brady did not always have great weapons but made those around him great. This is not about wins and loses, this is about how much you want to win. It is about will. Will Carr sell out to win? He checked down on fourth down in a scenario where if he tried he might have won. And he defended that decision. Greatness sells out to win. Period.[/quote]If your defense gives up touchdowns on 7 straight possessions. How is a QB going to will a team to victory without game breakers or a defense that creates turnovers.

Or Troy Aikman. He was 1-15 his rookie year with the cowboys. He won super Bowls because he had a talented team around him. And Emmitt Smith. He didnt have a winning record without Emmitt Smith in the lineup 1-4. That was only one player. He won 20% of his games without 1 hall of fame player surrounded by a roster a talented as any in the NFL at that time. HE was a. Hall of fame QB and he only willed his team to a win 20% of the time with multiple hall of famers on his team. I didn't even include his rookie year , without Emmitt Smith.

[Jeremyturner1976]

[quote=KennyPowers post_id=1032527] Nobody says that Carr is elite. Nobody. All that is said is he isn't elite and you need an elite QB. Which by the way is automatic that the Raiders will get an elite QB when Carr eventually leaves.

If you look at position groups of the playoff teams in this league. Where do the Raiders rank? I would say last.

Every Carr bashers say the same thing. He doesn't elevate teammates to a win. Elite QB come through and do that. Well that would mean Carr should never win a game against an elite QB. Because elite Qb's don't lose games. So he should never beat Mahomes.
SO all these elite QB's have better players at almost every position to the Raiders. A couple players when healthy can start on playoff teams. But overalll about the only position the Raiders have better then most playoff teams is a slot reciever, a TE(when Healthy), at least one DE, K,P. sometimes a LT.
Yet these Carr haters expect Carr to rise above a below average talented squad and beat super bowl contenders and playoff teams week in and week out.[/quote]"Better than Gannon" - Kenny Powers

[Attyla]

[quote=KennyPowers post_id=1032755]If your defense gives up touchdowns on 7 straight possessions. How is a QB going to will a team to victory without game breakers or a defense that creates turnovers.

Or Troy Aikman. He was 1-15 his rookie year with the cowboys. He won super Bowls because he had a talented team around him. And Emmitt Smith. He didnt have a winning record without Emmitt Smith in the lineup 1-4. That was only one player. He won 20% of his games without 1 hall of fame player surrounded by a roster a talented as any in the NFL at that time. HE was a. Hall of fame QB and he only willed his team to a win 20% of the time with multiple hall of famers on his team. I didn't even include his rookie year , without Emmitt Smith.[/quote]when you compare a rookie QB to a veteran QB you lose all credibility

[Lecomp]

Can we close this thread until after the Chargers.. more important things to worry about Gents!!