Emo Andy Dalton after a trip to Sephora on Groundhog Day (Carr thread)

[RaiderandBulldog]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Raiders/stat ... 3878636548

[Raiderfanrich]

[quote=Attyla post_id=1031750]Correct, Gannon could take a hit when needed, Carr often goes down well before the players arrive.[/quote]As I said in another post the other week, I've never seen a QB walk into sacks with regularity like this guy

[KennyPowers]

[quote=NoThanksSir post_id=1031759]You're getting confused. Carr doesn't have more drop backs than Gannon. Gannon is at a combined 4727 snaps, Carr 4673.

In addition to that, Gannon put himself at risk of fumbling 268 more times by virtue of rushing more. 268 more tackles than Carr. 268 more times being clubbed at or taken down to the dirt. Despite that he only has 4 more fumbles than Carr. By the time Carr's career is over I'm sure he will have more than Gannon.[/quote] Come on bro. You are really nit picking. They have about the same amount of fumbles. People act like Rich Gannon walked on water. He got blown the f[raiders_icon]ck out in the Super Bowl. Embarrassed. If Carr had a game like that, fans would be calling for a crucification.

[NoThanksSir]

[quote=KennyPowers post_id=1031762] Come on bro. You are really nit picking. They have about the same amount of fumbles. People act like Rich Gannon walked on water. He got blown the f[raiders_icon]ck out in the Super Bowl. Embarrassed. If Carr had a game like that, fans would be calling for a crucification.[/quote]I'm not nitpicking. Gannon took more hits than Carr. The adjusted fumble percentage leans in his favor not Carr's.

And Carr will likely never get the opportunity to play that bad in a Superbowl. He's just not good enough to get there.

[KennyPowers]

[quote=Raiderfanrich post_id=1031761]As I said in another post the other week, I've never seen a QB walk into sacks with regularity like this guy[/quote]Same amount of sacks on a team with a bottom five roster over the four years and one of the better roster s in the NFL over a 4 year period. You see what you want to see. 20 years is a long time. If you went back and watched Gannon and threw a #4 on his back. You would be screaming at the TV how all he does is dink and dunk and never throws downfield. He has to throw the ball away and shouldn't take the sack. Fans wanted to run Gannon out of town too. Didn't think he threw downfield enough. Selective memory with a lot of fans. IN 20 years when Carr is gone. And we have 20 years of real shittty QB play, fans will be like why didn't we keep Carr. He won with another team. We never should have let him go.

[Attyla]

[quote=KennyPowers post_id=1031762] Come on bro. You are really nit picking. They have about the same amount of fumbles. People act like Rich Gannon walked on water. He got blown the f[raiders_icon]ck out in the Super Bowl. Embarrassed. If Carr had a game like that, fans would be calling for a crucification.[/quote]the difference is, Gannon lead winning teams. Carr has not.

Winning matters when it comes to how you treat someone. Gannon was a winner, he was respected. Carr has not won, he is treated with more scrutiny

is it fair? Probably not, but since when is sports fair?

[chucker]

[quote=NoThanksSir post_id=1031759]You're getting confused. Carr doesn't have more drop backs than Gannon. Gannon is at a combined 4727 snaps, Carr 4673.

In addition to that, Gannon put himself at risk of fumbling 268 more times by virtue of rushing more. 268 more tackles than Carr. 268 more times being clubbed at or taken down to the dirt. Despite that he only has 4 more fumbles than Carr. By the time Carr's career is over I'm sure he will have more than Gannon.[/quote]But remember that Gannon played in an era when QB's were protected much more, while Carr plays in an era when it's open season on QB's. These days you're allowed to hit QBs virtually anywhere, as long as it isn't low or high.

[Raidernation1979]

[quote=chucker post_id=1031767]But remember that Gannon played in an era when QB's were protected much more, while Carr plays in an era when it's open season on QB's. These days you're allowed to hit QBs virtually anywhere, as long as it isn't low or high.[/quote]

[Oaktownonly]

I don't remember who the Raiders were playing but they were playing at home. Raiders were in the red zone. Gannon scrambled around for what seemed an eternity, breaking tackles and juking defenders then threw a strike to James Jett in the end zone.

That play was who Gannon was. I saw it on YouTube but can't find it now. If anyone were to see that play they would see the difference between Gannon and Carr.

[KennyPowers]

[quote=Attyla post_id=1031766]the difference is, Gannon lead winning teams. Carr has not.

Winning matters when it comes to how you treat someone. Gannon was a winner, he was respected. Carr has not won, he is treated with more scrutiny

is it fair? Probably not, but since when is sports fair?[/quote]Gannon was also surrounded with Super Bowl talented teams. It's easier to win in those circumstances then what Carr has had. DO you really thing Gannon would have made any of these Raider teams contenders or on the level of the teams he led. The talent levels are not even close. Christ he had Hall of famers in Woodson, Rice, Brown. Eric Allen fringe hall of famer. What hall of famers does Carr have? About the only player defensively that would have started was Khalil Mack and on offense Waller. Maybe Kolton Miller. His first two years he wasn't better than Barry Sims. Donald Penn was better. So maybe two and a half players would have started on those Rich Gannon Teams. Do you see the talent level difference? A similar situation was if Gannon would have went to San Diego at that time. That roster was similar to the Raiders when Carr took over. Terrible. Would Gannon have won an MVP and taken that team to the super bowl. He would have washed out in a year and been forgotten

[Attyla]

[quote=KennyPowers post_id=1031771]Gannon was also surrounded with Super Bowl talented teams. It's easier to win in those circumstances then what Carr has had. DO you really thing Gannon would have made any of these Raider teams contenders or on the level of the teams he led. The talent levels are not even close. Christ he had Hall of famers in Woodson, Rice, Brown. Eric Allen fringe hall of famer. What hall of famers does Carr have? About the only player defensively that would have started was Khalil Mack and on offense Waller. Maybe Kolton Miller. His first two years he wasn't better than Barry Sims. So maybe two and a half players would have started on those Rich Gannon Teams. Do you see the talent level difference? A similar situation was if Gannon would have went to San Diego at that time. That roster was similar to the Raiders when Carr took over. Terrible. Would Gannon have won an MVP and taken that team to the super bowl. He would have washed out in a year and been forgotten[/quote]you are not reading what I wrote. Gannon was a winner. He won games. The overall impression of him was that of a success story. A guy who had bounced around and finally was given the keys and won. I am not concerned about the team around him. When you have sustained success, you are given more margin and benefit of the doubt. He lost on the biggest stage, but he got us there. People are going to recognize that. Carr has not, and yes, I know it is a team game and wins are for the teams and so are the losses.

But that is not what the view is ever going to be. Nobody ever views it that way when discussing an individual. The impression is that Gannon was a winner and Carr is not.

is it fair? Probably not but that is the reality. When you are viewed as a winner you get more leash for the losses than when you are a loser. Hence if Carr loses next week, he will get blasted for sure, especially if he plays less than stellar. He will also get praised if we win, and even if he plays mediocre and we win some small group will elevate it to his win.

That is reality, it is just the way it is. I am not saying you are wrong, I am saying your view of the reality is not on par with what happens.

[Raidernation1979]

Gannon had a winning record at every stop except Washington. I’d be a liar if I said I knew what happened there. With each team he played with he left with a winning record. Must have all been Super Bowl contenders.

[Riff Majestic]

I was going to chime in a few times but it's really a waste of time, no one is changing their minds based on any of these posts. Dude is acting like Parker has started at RT a majority of Carr's career. Fact of the matter is, Carr has had a good OL most of his career and there's no debate imo Gannon was easily the better Raiders QB.

[KennyPowers]

[quote=Riff Majestic post_id=1031785]I was going to chime in a few times but it's really a waste of time, no one is changing their minds based on any of these posts. Dude is acting like Parker has started at RT a majority of Carr's career. Fact of the matter is, Carr has had a good OL most of his career and there's no debate imo Gannon was easily the better Raiders QB.[/quote]

Parker has started 31 games, 32 after Sunday. 2 Full seasons of starts. Exactly what I said. Parker has only been in the league 4 years.

[Jeremyturner1976]

[quote=Riff Majestic post_id=1031785]I was going to chime in a few times but it's really a waste of time, no one is changing their minds based on any of these posts. Dude is acting like Parker has started at RT a majority of Carr's career. Fact of the matter is, Carr has had a good OL most of his career and there's no debate imo Gannon was easily the better Raiders QB.[/quote]Really thankful for the perspective of 'Anything bad about Carr is the direct result of those around him, Carr has never done anything wrong'.

I have never seen that before... super effective argument.

We call that a game manager who needs too much around him to do anything with it - aka not worth 30 - at all. Look at what Alex Smith or Goff did with all stars around him, any top 20 QB can do the same.

What separates the men from the boys is putting up points, winning games, and 'creating' in more than the final two minutes of a game.

I will finish with this -
Gannon never 4th and gamed it. Ever. Carr has twice - there is no comparison.

[NoThanksSir]

[quote=KennyPowers post_id=1031795]

Parker has started 31 games, 32 after Sunday. 2 Full seasons of starts. Exactly what I said. Parker has only been in the league 4 years.[/quote]So only a quarter of Carr's career. I hate to break it to you but Carr played like absolute dog shit when the line was at it's best.