Emo Andy Dalton after a trip to Sephora on Groundhog Day (Carr thread)

[RaiderandBulldog]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Raiders/stat ... 3878636548

[raiders1988xyz]

[quote=KennyPowers post_id=1031721]Like it or not we are in playoff contention. We lost two of our three top playmakers for most of the season. Carr has elevated players. Is Hunter renfrow one of the top slot guys in the league. His number are better as a pro than they were in college with the great Trevor Lawrence and Desean Watson throwing him
the ball. They didn't turn him into a 1st round draft pick. What was Darren Waller before he came to the Raiders. A practice squad player. Now he's one of the top TE's in the league. Yes the team has better depth than any year the Raiders had with Carr. That's why this is the best team he's been on. This team has had a lot of adversity for a young inexperienced team. They powered through it and are ion ht4 brink of the playoffs, no thanks to fair-weather friends like yourself who wish they lose every game only to say. I told you so.

The Carr haters sound like broken records. We can move the ball outside the twenty. Carr fumbles. Rich Gannon fumbled too 39 times in the 4 years. That was with one of the better lines in the NFL. Carr fumbles 42 times the past 4 years. And that with Brandon Parker playing two full season at RT. About the same and nobody seem to call Gannon a pussy for fumbling the ball. They only remember what thy want to remember. Not the facts.[/quote]do you realize that gannon ran the ball a lot?

46, 298 yards
89, 529 yards
63, 231 yards
50, 156 yards

11 touchdowns

carr is a statue and he barely run the ball despite having 4.6 speed

it's much more pathetic to fumble it inside the pocket than running the ball

[NoThanksSir]

[quote=KennyPowers post_id=1031721]Like it or not we are in playoff contention. We lost two of our three top playmakers for most of the season. Carr has elevated players. Is Hunter renfrow one of the top slot guys in the league. His number are better as a pro than they were in college with the great Trevor Lawrence and Desean Watson throwing him
the ball. They didn't turn him into a 1st round draft pick. What was Darren Waller before he came to the Raiders. A practice squad player. Now he's one of the top TE's in the league. Yes the team has better depth than any year the Raiders had with Carr. That's why this is the best team he's been on. This team has had a lot of adversity for a young inexperienced team. They powered through it and are ion ht4 brink of the playoffs, no thanks to fair-weather friends like yourself who wish they lose every game only to say. I told you so.

The Carr haters sound like broken records. We can move the ball outside the twenty. Carr fumbles. Rich Gannon fumbled too 39 times in the 4 years. That was with one of the better lines in the NFL. Carr fumbles 42 times the past 4 years. And that with Brandon Parker playing two full season at RT. About the same and nobody seem to call Gannon a pussy for fumbling the ball. They only remember what thy want to remember. Not the facts.[/quote]Like it or not? I'm a Raider fan first and foremost. Regardless of who plays for us. So yes, I'm overjoyed to still have games worth watching.

If I'm being honest I think Carr benefits from Renfrow a whole lot more than the other way around. Renfrow stuns me when he manages to catch some of Carr's off target balls, gets blown up, and gets up like its no big deal. Waller there is a bit more context to him being a practice squad player. I'm sure you know. Like Carr, I think all of these guys benefited from Gruden more than anything. Gruden saved Carr's career, and had Renfrow, Waller, Jacobs, and Ruggs progressing nicely as players. Improving each year with him.

What I mean by Carr elevating his teammates is in the game, making key plays to bail his teammates out while minimizing mistakes. I think the Colts game is a great example of him doing something amazing like avoiding the Leonard blitz to seal the game. But then making several mistakes throughout the game to detract from his overall performance. It's a tale of two Carrs, when he's on he looks like a franchise guy. When he's off, he is a liability.

To add, we won that Colts game. And that is all that matters. Winning games that matter. If Carr continues to due so he'll make me eat crow. But I'm skeptical performances like he had in the Colts game will continue to get it done. Especially if we make it into the playoffs.

[Raiderfanrich]

Carr gets Jacobs blown the f[raiders_icon]ck up on dump offs - A LOT. Both he and Renfrow have suffered broken ribs thanks to hospital balls. He's nearly had Richard killed a couple of times too.

[KennyPowers]

[quote=raiders1988xyz post_id=1031726]do you realize that gannon ran the ball a lot?

46, 298 yards
89, 529 yards
63, 231 yards
50, 156 yards

11 touchdowns

carr is a statue and he barely run the ball despite having 4.6 speed

it's much more pathetic to fumble it inside the pocket than running the ball[/quote]I get it. If Carr ran more than Gannon he would be a bigger pussy for fumbling in the open field. Is a fumble not a fumble? Are some weighted more then others? So only your fumble opinion matters. SO if Gannon was actually fumbling n the open field, shouldn't that stop fans from wanting QB's to run for first downs? So when Carr fumbled out of the end zone abasing Green Bay., he wasn't crucified for two years over the play. He wasn't called a pussy for running and fumbling trying to reach for the pile on. Which is it? Carr was blamed for the loss on because of that play by many on this board. It dirndl;t matter that the defense gave up touchdowns on 7 straight possessions. So he pussy for fumbling out of the end zone or a pussy for standing in the picket? So in turn Gannon is also a pussy for doing the same thing. Just looking for equal treatment.

[Attyla]

[quote=Raiderfanrich post_id=1031627]Seriously, who are all these 'newish' dudes who come on here and just literally gush for Carr and loooove to gloat over the fact that they believe 'he is going nowhere'
Is it like some club members or something????
Do these people not like winning?????[/quote]Darren finally got approved by the Mods to post?

[chucker]

[quote=KennyPowers post_id=1031740]I get it. If Carr ran more than Gannon he would be a bigger pussy for fumbling in the open field. Is a fumble not a fumble? Are some weighted more then others? So only your fumble opinion matters.. So when Carr fumbled out of the end zone, he wasn't crucified for two years over the play. He wasn't called a pussy for running and fumbling trying to reach for the pile on. Which is it? Is he pussy for fumbling out of the end zone or a pussy for standing in the picket? So in turn Gannon is also a pussy for doing the same thing. Just looking for equal treatment.[/quote]Carr barely runs, so has fewer opportunities to fumble yet fumbles a lot - without the reward of more rushing yards -it's risk reward and actually gaining yards and getting first downs is a tradeoff most are willing to make. He's also playing in an era when you can barely touch a QB because of the rules and so hard hits that might make fumbles more likely are more rare. Trying to defend Carr for his fumbling is really a bad strategy if you have any desire for objectivity. Maybe you don't.

Most of us have accepted that he's going to have to be better as a passer to make up for the fumbles, because it's clear after 8 seasons that it won't improve. It's bad. It is what it is.

[KennyPowers]

[quote=chucker post_id=1031743]Carr barely runs, so has fewer opportunities to fumble yet fumbles a lot - without the reward of more rushing yards -it's risk reward and actually gaining yards and getting first downs is a tradeoff most are willing to make. He's also playing in an era when you can barely touch a QB because of the rules and so hard hits that might make fumbles more likely are more rare. Trying to defend Carr for his fumbling is really a bad strategy if you have any desire for objectivity. Maybe you don't.

Most of us have accepted that he's going to have to be better as a passer to make up for the fumbles, because it's clear after 8 seasons that it won't improve. It's bad. It is what it is.[/quote]He fumbles the same amount a Gannon, I'm not defending the fumbles. Gannon was sacked 138 times and Carr has been sacked 143 times. Pretty f[raiders_icon]cking similar and Gannon was playing with a far superior line. Yet Carr is said to have no pocket presence and Gannon does.

[chucker]

[quote=KennyPowers post_id=1031747]He fumbles the same amount a Gannon, I'm not defending the fumbles. Gannon was sacked 138 times and Carr has been sacked 143 times. Pretty f[raiders_icon]cking similar and Gannon was playing with a far superior line. Yet Carr is said to have no pocket presence and Gannon does.[/quote]Are you comparing Carr's pocket presence to Gannon's? If you are then it doesn't seem you ever watched Gannon play. Or maybe don't watch Carr play? I don't know, but there's a disconnect.

[Attyla]

[quote=chucker post_id=1031748]Are you comparing Carr's pocket presence to Gannon's? If you are then it doesn't seem you ever watched Gannon play. Or maybe don't watch Carr play? I don't know, but there's a disconnect.[/quote]Correct, Gannon could take a hit when needed, Carr often goes down well before the players arrive.

[Raidernation1979]

Carr is a yardage champion. He even passed stabler in yards before TDs.

Career numbers
Carr 164 yards per TD
Stabler 144 yards per TD
Gannon 159 yards per TD (154 yards per TD with raiders)
Aaron Rodgers 123 yards per TD
Ryan Tannehill 156 yards per TD
Tom Brady 135 yards per TD
Stanford 155 yards per TD

He’s a yardage guy

[NoThanksSir]

[quote=KennyPowers post_id=1031747]He fumbles the same amount a Gannon, I'm not defending the fumbles. Gannon was sacked 138 times and Carr has been sacked 143 times. Pretty f[raiders_icon]cking similar and Gannon was playing with a far superior line. Yet Carr is said to have no pocket presence and Gannon does.[/quote]Gannon has twice the amount of career rushes as Carr. and only 200 less pass attempts in a time where they threw the ball less. The fact that they have similar fumble numbers does not reflect well on Carr. It's quite the opposite.

[KennyPowers]

[quote=NoThanksSir post_id=1031755]Gannon has twice the amount of career rushes as Carr. and only 200 less pass attempts in a time where they threw the ball less. The fact that they have similar fumble numbers does not reflect well on Carr. It's quite the opposite.[/quote]So Carr has 200 more drop backs with Brandon Parker protecting him from the RT position for two years. Not quite the same as having Lincoln Kennedy. Fumbles are fumbles. So you remember every Gannon fumble. Why are the sack numbers similar if Gannon has a pocket presence and Carr doesn't. Even though Carr has 200 more drop backs like you said

[signal]

[quote=chucker post_id=1031748]Are you comparing Carr's pocket presence to Gannon's? If you are then it doesn't seem you ever watched Gannon play. Or maybe don't watch Carr play? I don't know, but there's a disconnect.[/quote]It is frustrating arguing with someone who does not have knowledge. The only people stating that Carr is comparable to Gannon are those that have not seen Gannon play and cherry pick a stat or two. I don't know if it is a generational thing or what but I don't understand why people who are completely unfamiliar with a player feel like they have the wherewithal to make astute comparisons about that player. It appears a couple of stats are all they need to feel like they have all the evidence they need.

[NoThanksSir]

[quote=KennyPowers post_id=1031756]So Carr has 200 more drop backs with Brandon Parker protecting him from the RT position for two years. Not quite the same as having Lincoln Kennedy. Fumbles are fumbles. So you remember every Gannon fumble. Why are the sack numbers similar if Gannon has a pocket presence and Carr doesn't. Even though Carr has 200 more drop backs like you said[/quote]You're getting confused. Carr doesn't have more drop backs than Gannon. Gannon is at a combined 4727 snaps, Carr 4673.

In addition to that, Gannon put himself at risk of fumbling 268 more times by virtue of rushing more. 268 more tackles than Carr. 268 more times being clubbed at or taken down to the dirt. Despite that he only has 4 more fumbles than Carr. By the time Carr's career is over I'm sure he will have more than Gannon.

[NoClapsPlease]

we're ranked 29th in pass blocking efficiency, FYI.