Ashton Jeanty

[Arsenal Raider]

Welcome aboard!

[raiderboyron]

[quote=srv5490 post_id=1289734][/quote]

You have to follow the previous posts to understand mine. If you do, you'll see the sarcasm.

[srv5490]

[quote=raiderboyron post_id=1289735]You have to follow the previous posts to understand mine. If you do, you'll see the sarcasm.[/quote]https://media.tenor.com/KEy2voJRdaIAAAAM/jokes-joke.gif

As someone who has a habit of making esoteric sarcastic posts that I don't expect anyone to get, I also enjoy getting fooled myself - well done!

[Reno Hightower]

I haven't read anywhere that Jeanty is not being receptive to what his coach wants him to do. Technique and fundamentals do evolve though.

How many WR's still use a three point stance? Tim Brown always carried his hands high at the line of scrimmage. Jerry Rice did not. Both are in the Hall of Fame.

[nicoye64]

As a fellow basketball coach and raider fan, I wanted to give my take on this. I disagree with Chip’s notion that a lower stance makes for a better defender. It does for some people, not for others. This is because the defensive stance is specific to the defender’s body type and comfort/experience.

Just as the best shooters in NBA history all tend to have different shot forms, the best defenders all exhibit a variety of types of stances. One of those stances is the upward stance. This excerpt below is from the book “Lockdown Defense” by Michael Jagacki.

The upward stance draws more similarities to the classic defensive stance. The shoulders are in line with the hip and heels, but there is a lot less bend in the knees than our previous dogma allowed. Instead, the defender might appear to not be very low at all (image 26). And although this stance isn't associate with pressure defenders, it is used by some of the greatest defensive stoppers:
Kawhi, Pippen, Tony Allen, Iguodala and more.

This stance better allows defenders to maintain a between the basket positioning. While it can be used to pressure the ball, its main priority is to prevent anything easy. As opposed to the forward stance where the defender can get into the offensive player's space, the upward stance keeps the defender wide and in recovery position which makes the job of getting by these defenders more difficult.

Once again, the names mentioned in association with this stance does not define the athleticism required. Those are simply the players who have taken the stance to a greater level. This stance can be picked up by players of varying athleticism and defensive ability because it relies on angles and positioning instead of explosiveness and agility. In fact, it can make your poor defenders capable of becoming average and your average defenders, with low athleticism, the chance to become even better.

To embrace the upward stance fully however, the player and the coach must understand that defense is not always about a spectacular play, but instead the prevention of one. The true beauty is in the absence of anything easy.

• Upward Stance Comparison & Further Thinking

Again, it is a helpful exercise to look around at other sports and draw on similarities. The upward stance is no exception.

Soccer has been using the stance seemingly forever. Look at any defender in soccer and you see the upward stance being used to cushion the ball and keep it in front. The priorities for on-ball soccer defenders are balance and ease of movement. By only slightly bending their knees, soccer defenders are always ready to recover in front of the ball. The balance allows them to easily move laterally and thus forcing the offensive players to take wider angles to attack.

The typical mentality of soccer defenders are also noteworthy. They learn to be patient, to keep the offensive player in front, and guide the attack. As a result, they limit the spectacular and rely on a team-game. "Tackling," the term that describes when a soccer defender goes to steal the ball, is generally saved as a reaction to an attacking mistake. Otherwise, the defenders continue to delay the attacking player and stay in front. In a game so determined by one attacking success, one reckless tackle might cost a team the game.

Although basketball is more scoring fluid, this is a good mindset for the developing upward stance user. Especially for those defenders attempting to transition from poor defender to average, they must understand the value of not getting beat, over the value of taking a gamble. Therefore, footwork and angles become the primary focus for the improvement of lacking individual defenders.

[GoodTimeCharlie]

One thing that popped into my mind regarding Jeanty and the possible benefit of a crouched stance (as long as it didn’t throw off his game) is that he’s a mighty-mite.

What I’m gettin’ at is that a benefit of being a shorter back is having the offensive line obscure the RB’s location during a play.

Would starting from a crouch cause Jeanty to get obscured quicker than if he was starting from the upright stance?

Was just a thought I had.

[Attyla]

[quote=ToastPatterson post_id=1289771]I haven't read anywhere that Jeanty is not being receptive to what his coach wants him to do. Technique and fundamentals do evolve though.

How many WR's still use a three point stance? Tim Brown always carried his hands high at the line of scrimmage. Jerry Rice did not. Both are in the Hall of Fame.[/quote]But one is better than the other. Jerry just had better technique. He was not the better athlete, he just worked harder than everyone else. He was not faster, more athletic, he studied the position.

How you hold your hands, how you position your feet, your stance, all seem minor but when you put it all together correctly, that can actually give you and edge. Using the argument that both are in the Hall is a minor point, one is in the Hall, the other is the greatest of all time and it is not even close.

[Just_Win_Baby]

[quote=Attyla post_id=1289784]But one is better than the other. Jerry just had better technique. He was not the better athlete, he just worked harder than everyone else. He was not faster, more athletic, he studied the position.

How you hold your hands, how you position your feet, your stance, all seem minor but when you put it all together correctly, that can actually give you and edge. Using the argument that both are in the Hall is a minor point, one is in the Hall, the other is the greatest of all time and it is not even close.[/quote]One used stickem

[CWood24]

[quote=Just_Win_Baby post_id=1289785]One used stickem[/quote]Both used stickum it was a well known, receivers & defensive backs did back then it was well known just not dealt with by the NFL

[Attyla]

[quote=Just_Win_Baby post_id=1289785]One used stickem[/quote]Does that even matter? Guys now use gloves that do basically the same thing. You simply cannot compare the two. Jerry was just in a league of his own.

[chucker]

[quote=CWood24 post_id=1289789]Both used stickum it was a well known, receivers & defensive backs did back then it was well known just not dealt with by the NFL[/quote]Stickum was banned before either guy entered the NFL.

[Trainnvain]

[quote=chucker post_id=1289802]Stickum was banned before either guy entered the NFL.[/quote]Jerry Rice admitted to using stickum during his career.

[Attyla]

[quote=Trainnvain post_id=1289810]Jerry Rice admitted to using stickum during his career.[/quote]Its hard to pinpoint how often. He wore gloves but even then there were a variety of types and he did not wear them all the time. Stickum would have been seen on flesh, and he wore a number of different color gloves. Some red, which again you would have seen it, black which could have masked it and natural leather which would have hid it pretty well. Also, when you refer to "stickum" there was a number of products out there with various hues. Again, hard to get to an answer of how many. That said, he had a reported 15 drops in his career, stat muse is the reference there. I tend to think he may have used it but not often and mostly early in his career. But even with some usage I doubt anyone would make a claim that stickum took him to Mark McGuireesk levels of PEDs. Jerry was just the best there ever was.

[Trainnvain]

[quote=Attyla post_id=1289811]Its hard to pinpoint how often. He wore gloves but even then there were a variety of types and he did not wear them all the time. Stickum would have been seen on flesh, and he wore a number of different color gloves. Some red, which again you would have seen it, black which could have masked it and natural leather which would have hid it pretty well. Also, when you refer to "stickum" there was a number of products out there with various hues. Again, hard to get to an answer of how many. That said, he had a reported 15 drops in his career, stat muse is the reference there. I tend to think he may have used it but not often and mostly early in his career. But even with some usage I doubt anyone would make a claim that stickum took him to Mark McGuireesk levels of PEDs. Jerry was just the best there ever was.[/quote]He admitted to using "stickum" in an article in 2015- his words, not mine. No sense in dancing around that fact if he freely admitted it. It doesn't lessen his accomplishments in my eyes.

[Trainnvain]

He admitted to using "stickum" in an article in 2015- his words, not mine. No sense in dancing around that fact if he freely admitted it. It doesn' lessen his accomplishments in my eyes.

[CWood24]

[quote=chucker post_id=1289802]Stickum was banned before either guy entered the NFL.[/quote]Players used stickum way past when it was banned i’ve seen plenty interviews in the past where guys admitted they used without saying they used it

If anything as Raiders fans we should be applauding the art of subterfuge it’s built into our souls, if we can get an edge then we should take an edge