Ashton Jeanty

[mstrbass2000]

[Attyla]

I also want Washington to get more reps.



Yes I am.



No, it shouldn't, and no it isn't. The only way that would be higher is if he broke off a bunch of random 20+ runs. That doesn't tell you if the RB is talented or not and is currently the problem with how everyone is grading the backup.



I'm well aware of what his average for the season is, which is why if you actually read my post, I was commenting on Jeanty's performance based on the best run defenses he's faced. That's not cherry-picking stats, because the context is explained IN the post.

Cherry picking stats would be, ignoring Washington's performance against the Chiefs and using his 5 carries against the 29th ranked run defense to claim he should be starting.



Yeah, just lost all credibility. Jeanty had 1200+ APY as a rookie. Ignoring all of his numbers and just posting his rushing ypc would be cherry picking stats.



You also catch the ball, which Jeanty is elite at.



You're right they don't.

Jeanty is currently on pace for over 1800 APY. That's a solid season for an RB. If he wasn't playing injured it would be 2000, which is elite.



Ha.

Great RB's also rise to the occasion. In our most important game of the season, Jeanty had double Washington's YPC. If Washington is as great as you all say, he needs to do it against a team that's not ranked 29th against the run. Since you want to talk about averages, if Washington has another game like the Chiefs, his average will be lower than Jeanty's, and that's with less carries.

You guys keep harping on average because that's all you have, which is why I did a carry for carry comparison. Jeanty's average is going up the last couple of games, Washington's average keeps going down. In fact, if it wasn't for that one run against the 29th ranked defense, Washington's ypc would already be lower than Jeanty's. So much for cherry picking stats huh?



Except for the fact that Jeanty did his best work against the best run defenses. Washington has yet to prove it against a good run defense.

Just for the record, using Jeanty's injury to make a talent claim is bad faith debating. That's like claiming Brock Bowers is overrated because of his second year. I love how everyone keeps things in context when it's players they like (Bowers), but with Jeanty they ignore every statline except the one that makes him look bad.

When Washington plays bad it's the OL. When Jeanty plays injured he's a bust. Yeah, no bias there.

I'm not against Washington at all; I want him to get 50% of the carries for the rest of the season. It's not my fault he's not good enough to warrant that in the eyes of the coaching staff.

And all of this bullshit is why your opinions constantly get shit on, and rightfully so. Jeanty's yards per carry for his career are average at best and subpar is more accurate. I did not cherry pick a damn thing, unlike you who used one half of one game to make your point. Yards per carry is quite often accurately used as a base point in viewing a RBs production. Your shit shifting of the goalposts are utter shit. He is not getting the job done based on his draft status. That is just reality. And yes, Washington bouncing out his run plays is happening because our guards are getting beat in the run game. I would far rather a fast back try to bounce it out on the chance his speed can get yards rather than get stuffed for losses on inside runs. That is the game and that is how they get coached. No hole? Get in another lane. Jesus, it is like teaching football to an elbow with you.

[mranquales]

And all of this bullshit is why your opinions constantly get shit on, and rightfully so. Jeanty's yards per carry for his career are average at best and subpar is more accurate. I did not cherry pick a damn thing, unlike you who used one half of one game to make your point.

When the context of why I'm doing something is fully explained in my actual post, then yes, you are cherry-picking by purposely ignoring the context in your reply. Then, calling me a liar, based on YOUR cherry-picking.

I posted Washington and Jeanty's stats for the first half because Washington got more carries than Jeanty in the first half, which I explained when I posted it. Stop being obtuse.

Yards per carry is quite often accurately used as a base point in viewing a RBs production. Your shit shifting of the goalposts are utter shit. He is not getting the job done based on his draft status.

Fine, just give it a couple of more games to get Washington's total carries up. He only needs one more game like the Chiefs, and currently only one run against the 29th ranked run defense is saving his average right now.

I would far rather a fast back try to bounce it out on the chance his speed can get yards rather than get stuffed for losses on inside runs.

Jeanty had his longest run of the day bouncing it outside. Washington got stuffed when he tried to bounce it outside against the Chiefs because they were ready for it. It has nothing to do with speed. Once defenses figure out that Washington likes to do that exclusively (Chiefs), it will get shut down, as we've already seen.

And once again, Jeanty had 4 yards per carry on one leg against a top 5 run defense, Washington had 2. Washington was getting clamped, not Jeanty. If Jeanty got Washington's carries he would have had around 100 yards. Stop trying to make it sound like both RB's had a bad game when only one did. Jeanty can't control the amount of carries he gets, so stop lying and cherry picking to create a narrative.

That is the game and that is how they get coached

Are you insinuating that Klint Kubiak WANTS Washington to ignore the play as called? I've never heard that before.

*Klint Kubiak calls an inside zone*

*Washington ignores it*

Attyla: "That's what the coach wants!"

Right. That's why he went from (Memory) 8 carries to 3 carries, to 5 carries, to 9 carries, because Kubiak WANTS him to ignore his play calls, drop passes, and miss blocks. Yeah bro, you're really owning me in this debate!

[Attyla]

When the context of why I'm doing something is fully explained in my actual post, then yes, you are cherry-picking by purposely ignoring the context in your reply. Then, calling me a liar, based on YOUR cherry-picking.

I posted Washington and Jeanty's stats for the first half because Washington got more carries than Jeanty in the first half, which I explained when I posted it. Stop being obtuse.



Fine, just give it a couple of more games to get Washington's total carries up. He only needs one more game like the Chiefs, and currently only one run against the 29th ranked run defense is saving his average right now.



Jeanty had his longest run of the day bouncing it outside. Washington got stuffed when he tried to bounce it outside against the Chiefs because they were ready for it. It has nothing to do with speed. Once defenses figure out that Washington likes to do that exclusively (Chiefs), it will get shut down, as we've already seen.

And once again, Jeanty had 4 yards per carry on one leg against a top 5 run defense, Washington had 2. Washington was getting clamped, not Jeanty. If Jeanty got Washington's carries he would have had around 100 yards. Stop trying to make it sound like both RB's had a bad game when only one did. Jeanty can't control the amount of carries he gets, so stop lying and cherry picking to create a narrative.



Are you insinuating that Klint Kubiak WANTS Washington to ignore the play as called? I've never heard that before.

*Klint Kubiak calls an inside zone*

*Washington ignores it*

Attyla: "That's what the coach wants!"

Right. That's why he went from (Memory) 8 carries to 3 carries, to 5 carries, to 9 carries, because Kubiak WANTS him to ignore his play calls, drop passes, and miss blocks. Yeah bro, you're really owning me in this debate!

OK, so you made up a bunch of shit again. Washington is NOT ignoring the play. He is recognizing that the inside run will get stuffed and he bounces the play. This happens all the f[raiders_icon]cking time. The result? 5 yards per carry. That is actually a good result. In what kind of world do you want a guy to blindly just run into the pass rush? In what world do you want a guy to get stuffed for a 2 yard loss?

Jeanty is averaging far under the yards per carry his draft status would dictate. The 4th rounder is not expected to get 5 yards per carry. That is because they are a 4th round rookie. The first round "blue chip" guy is expected to get more than 4 yards per carry (and he did that for a half) but Jeanty is not getting 4 yards per carry. He is getting 3.6 yards per carry. His one saving grace is the passing yards. But as a runner, he is falling behind. Face the simple facts, the RB is a runner first. As a runner first, he is actually doing worse this year than last year. You offered up an interesting stat. The first three opponents were subpar run defenses. What did Jeanty do against them? 4.4, 2.3 and 2.9 yards per carry. Against the good run defense, he had 3.9 yards. He has only broken 100 yards once. And that was against the winless Phins who might go winless for the year. You also brought up the notion that the big yard guys get some breakout runs that for for long yardage. Well, Jeanty had one for 64 yards last year. If you use your normal formula of taking away stats, that would mean, take away that big chunk run and Jeanty for his career would be at 3.42 yards per carry. But, unlike you, I don't need to modify stats so I can claim something. He is at 3.6 yards per carry. That is not even in the ballpark. That is 44th overall. 44th in the one area that is the equalizer for RBs.

I hope he turns it around because as of right now, he is leaving a lot to be desired.

[Opoponax50]

We would have been at the same place. WR1 is not found very often in the latter rounds. And if this year is any indication, thus far the guys we did take are some of the best day 3 guys we have gotten in a long long time.

I honestly don't know why some people think there was some great WR choice to be made in the 3rd round or later. Was the FO supposed to threaten some other team out of their first round pick by dropping a flaming bag of dog crap on their front door?

We're in a from-the-ground-up rebuild this season and ahead of schedule. Of course it would be nice to already have a top 5 wideout, but you can't get what's not there.

[Attyla]

I honestly don't know why some people think there was some great WR choice to be made in the 3rd round or later. Was the FO supposed to threaten some other team out of their first round pick by dropping a flaming bag of dog crap on their front door?

We're in a from-the-ground-up rebuild this season and ahead of schedule. Of course it would be nice to already have a top 5 wideout, but you can't get what's not there.

I am mostly pleased with our draft and the places where I am less pleased are way way down the trough. We hit repeatedly with value picks on day 3 and even on day 2 we got two that will work. I would have liked to see what Crawford would have brought to the team but overall we hit really good. Receiver will get the attention it needs as will the guards. But I like what Spytek/Kubiak has done thus far. I even liked what Spytek did the year before even with some obvious meddling from Carroll.

[Rabidraider]

It wasn't a one year fix. Based off what's been accomplished so far its quite amazing.

Next year either through free agency and the draft, they will fix some of the remaining holes.

WR, DT, G, etc....

And I'm sure they are open to trades as teams fall out of any playoff run, for a possible gem.

We are an impatient bunch...

[Hellbound]

I honestly don't know why some people think there was some great WR choice to be made in the 3rd round or later. Was the FO supposed to threaten some other team out of their first round pick by dropping a flaming bag of dog crap on their front door?

We're in a from-the-ground-up rebuild this season and ahead of schedule. Of course it would be nice to already have a top 5 wideout, but you can't get what's not there.

Who said there was a great wr after the the 3rd? All I said was I would've liked to seen a draft pick thrown at one before the 6th rd. This team is thin enough that they might've gotten playing time. I stated that I loved the Stukes pick even at the time of the pick, but Boston was also there to take. Seems both would've been solid choices at positions of need. I don't recall anyone saying there were stud wrs available in the mid to late rounds. Sometimes people twist words or don't comprend things. This may be one of those times

[Hellbound]

I am mostly pleased with our draft and the places where I am less pleased are way way down the trough. We hit repeatedly with value picks on day 3 and even on day 2 we got two that will work. I would have liked to see what Crawford would have brought to the team but overall we hit really good. Receiver will get the attention it needs as will the guards. But I like what Spytek/Kubiak has done thus far. I even liked what Spytek did the year before even with some obvious meddling from Carroll.

Being how Spytek has admitted that he loves himself some linemen, I feel good about those positions being improved upon in the coming years as this team gets more & more complete

[mranquales]

OK, so you made up a bunch of shit again. Washington is NOT ignoring the play. He is recognizing that the inside run will get stuffed and he bounces the play. This happens all the f[raiders_icon]cking time. The result? 5 yards per carry. That is actually a good result. In what kind of world do you want a guy to blindly just run into the pass rush? In what world do you want a guy to get stuffed for a 2 yard loss?

It went from around 10, to 8, to 7, and now 5. The numbers keep getting lower and lower, pretty soon you might not be able to make this argument at all.

Jeanty is averaging far under the yards per carry his draft status would dictate

What does this mean? Stop with this subjectivity then claiming I'm lying when I objectively debunk it. What exactly do you mean by this statement? Give me real numbers. Stop using code words to skate by like the other guy.

The 4th rounder is not expected to get 5 yards per carry.

Based on what? Because this statement contradicts the other guy, who you agreed with. According to the logic, you lose next to nothing drafting an RB late, so nothing Washington is doing qualifies as "not expected".

Not to mention the fact that, carry for carry (and I've already done the math in previous posts), Jeanty and Washington are neck and neck YPC wise. In fact, as mentioned several times now, one run by Washington is the only thing saving his ypc.

Lastly, in general, Washington hasn't been anything special so far this year. Cherry picking his ypc as a metric to claim Washington is playing great is a lie.

The first round "blue chip" guy is expected to get more than 4 yards per carry (and he did that for a half) but Jeanty is not getting 4 yards per carry.

[Attyla]

Being how Spytek has admitted that he loves himself some linemen, I feel good about those positions being improved upon in the coming years as this team gets more & more complete

They will need to draft for the future. In that I mean, protect Mendoza, and give Mendoza a multiple set of quality targets. He processes the game really fast. And with his ideal size he can see the entire field. Great time to be a Raiders fan to watch a truly correct and on point rebuild.

[Reno Hightower]

And even more surprising is Cousins playing well under pressure - that's always been a weakness in the past.

Which begs the question of how long can he keep up the level of play while waiting for the ground game to improve? As I understood it, he was brought in to manage the offense and mentor Mendoza not put the offense on his back. Regardless he doing a good job keeping the defense off of the field.

As it is now where Cousins goes the team goes.

[Hellbound]

They will need to draft for the future. In that I mean, protect Mendoza, and give Mendoza a multiple set of quality targets. He processes the game really fast. And with his ideal size he can see the entire field. Great time to be a Raiders fan to watch a truly correct and on point rebuild.

We've seen so many other teams do it, sometimes multiple times, it doesn't seem real!

[mranquales]

The first round "blue chip" guy is expected to get more than 4 yards per carry (and he did that for a half) but Jeanty is not getting 4 yards per carry.

Say's who? Show me a clip of Klint Kubiak, John Spytek, or Mark Davis saying anything close to that.

The only thing Klint Kubiak said on record is that Washington still needs to prove himself (when asked about Washington's carries). I agree with Kubiak.

His one saving grace is the passing yards.

That's not a saving grace; that's a necessity in this new era. Great RB's HAVE to be good in the passing game now. Especially in Klint Kubiak's heavy-set offense.

Face the simple facts, the RB is a runner first.

It's a passing league. Running backs have to be swiss army knives. I don't even know how this is a debate among Raider fans.

So, Charlie Garner wasn't a good RB? Marcus Allen had around 4 for his career, so based on your logic he's not a good RB because he should have had a higher average than that.

You offered up an interesting stat. The first three opponents were subpar run defenses. What did Jeanty do against them? 4.4, 2.3 and 2.9 yards per carry. Against the good run defense, he had 3.9 yards.

Nice try attempting to make all the run defenses on the same level:

Dolphins are ranked 15th and they played a brutal schedule. Their 15th ranked run defense is well earned. Jeanty averaged 4.4 YPC on 23 carries. Great game. Washington also played well on 8 carries but got stuffed his last couple of carries and Kubiak decided to go with Jeanty to finish out the game.

Chargers are ranked much lower at 22. Jeanty averaged 2.3 YPC on 21 carries. Washington's average was lower, so Kubiak decided to bench him most of the game.

Saints are ranked 30th against the run (the absolute worst). This is the game where Jeanty injured his foot on the same leg as his ankle. He averaged 2.9 YPC on 19 carries. This is also the game where Washington had his 37-yard run, which is the only reason his average is 5 currently. After the Saints game Kubiak said Washington earned more carries.

KC Chiefs are ranked 5th against the run (the absolute best). Jeanty averaged 3.9 YPC on 15 carries. Washington averaged 2.0, so Kubiak decided to bench him for most of the second half despite the fact that he had more carries than Jeanty in the first half. After the game, Kubiak said that Washington still needed to prove himself when asked about Washington's carries.

You also brought up the notion that the big yard guys get some breakout runs that for for long yardage. Well, Jeanty had one for 64 yards last year.

The difference is no one was taking Jeanty's game against the Bears and only using stats from that game alone to make a claim about Jeanty. Jeanty also has an entire season to draw from, so one run is irrelevant.

If you use your normal formula of taking away stats, that would mean, take away that big chunk run and Jeanty for his career would be at 3.42 yards per carry.

I've never taken ANY stats away. Putting something in its proper context and omitting a stat are two different things.

Taking a 5-carry game against the worst defense we've faced all year as a metric to make a claim that Washington is superior to Jeanty is stupid. All I'm doing is point that out.

He has only broken 100 yards once. And that was against the winless Phins who might go winless for the year.

The Saints are right there with them as a bottom tier team. If we're talking run defense, The Dolphins are objectively better compared to the Saints.

I hope he turns it around because as of right now, he is leaving a lot to be desired.

That's your opinion, the facts are, he isn't. He's on pace for 1800 APY. That is objective fact.

Now if you want to argue that 1800 APY isn't good enough, go ahead and try, but you'll be quickly debunked.

*Sorry, had to make two different posts because it wouldn't display my full message in the first one*

[Xramfan]

Holy wall of texts Batman!

[MexicanHulk]

I honestly don't know why some people think there was some great WR choice to be made in the 3rd round or later. Was the FO supposed to threaten some other team out of their first round pick by dropping a flaming bag of dog crap on their front door?

We're in a from-the-ground-up rebuild this season and ahead of schedule. Of course it would be nice to already have a top 5 wideout, but you can't get what's not there.

Not that I think they’re “great” prospects or will be great, but, I woulda drafted Chris Bell or Ted Hurst in the 3rd. Not that I didn’t like Crawford or Zuhn. I just like a few other prospects more. Maybe Zuhn can take over a guard slot soon &, solidify the line &, I won’t have to think of that