Emo Andy Dalton after a trip to Sephora on Groundhog Day (Carr thread)
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RaiderandBulldog
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silver_ghost
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[quote=Dark Horse post_id=1119354]And this what ESPN said about the situation at the time rather than what a self serving revisionist snake said after the fact:
He then immediately fired Jackson, marking a rapid fall for the man who was in charge of personnel decisions and coaching after Davis' death.
Jackson made the trade for quarterback Carson Palmer after starter Jason Campbell broke his collarbone, costing the Raiders a 2012 first-round draft pick and a conditional 2013 second-rounder.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/744 ... n-one-year
Like I said, don't be so gullible.[/quote]BTW, let's not forget that after the death of Al Davis. It was rumored that John Madden was advising Mark Davis on the football aspect of things. I am not saying to blame this trade on John Madden but to me, it appears a conscious decision by a number of involved parties to go through with the trade. One change that I do see in the current Raiders is that Mark has gotten rid of people who were close to his father & gotten different people to run the business & ofcourse run the football side of things.
He then immediately fired Jackson, marking a rapid fall for the man who was in charge of personnel decisions and coaching after Davis' death.
Jackson made the trade for quarterback Carson Palmer after starter Jason Campbell broke his collarbone, costing the Raiders a 2012 first-round draft pick and a conditional 2013 second-rounder.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/744 ... n-one-year
Like I said, don't be so gullible.[/quote]BTW, let's not forget that after the death of Al Davis. It was rumored that John Madden was advising Mark Davis on the football aspect of things. I am not saying to blame this trade on John Madden but to me, it appears a conscious decision by a number of involved parties to go through with the trade. One change that I do see in the current Raiders is that Mark has gotten rid of people who were close to his father & gotten different people to run the business & ofcourse run the football side of things.
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chucker
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[quote=JRaider17 post_id=1119472]According to Vinny B, the Raiders knew Carr wasn't the long term answer within the first few weeks of the season.[/quote]IMO the talk that he would be playing for his job the last 4 games was always BS. By the time we were 2-7 it was over.
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The Duke
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An excerpt from Breer's Article (section on Carr and Raiders): *Sorry if already posted*
As is probably obvious, the Raiders’ decision to move off Derek Carr wasn’t just about getting a chance to evaluate Jarrett Stidham. Or really about that much at all. It was about protecting the team from an injury guarantee of $40.4 million vesting, in case Carr got hurt and couldn’t pass a physical in mid-February. So between now and Feb. 15 (if Carr’s on the roster that day at 4 p.m. ET, the $40.4 million becomes fully guaranteed), the Raiders will seek a resolution to move their quarterback of nine years off the roster. Why? Well, there are a few reasons for it, beyond just his 63–79 record as a starter, which, to be fair, is in part on him and in part a product of his surroundings.
• The first issue, as I understand it, connects to his fit with a new culture that draws hard lines on toughness and accountability. The second and third can be drawn from there.
• On the former—toughness—Carr has had a reputation for not hanging in the pocket, letting plays develop and taking a hit to strike downfield. That showed at times. One was against the Steelers in Week 16, on third-and-5 in the fourth quarter, with 3:07 left. The Steelers got pushed up the middle and rather than hold the ball and buy time, Carr quickly threw it over Davante Adams’s head and into the bench area—when Adams was in single coverage and would’ve had a chance to make a play downfield. Other issues from earlier in his career (like his ability to play in the cold) resurfaced, as well.
• On the latter—accountability—there was a feeling, among coaches and players, that Carr hadn’t shouldered his share of the blame for the mountain of close losses that piled up over the weeks, with the Thursday-night loss to the Rams, a prime example.
• The fourth element I could ascertain was an ability to make the plays to turn close losses into wins, with Carr missing a wide-open Hunter Renfrow high on his game-sealing pick in Pittsburgh as the most recent example.
• And fifth, and this relates back to knowing when to take risks with the ball, is how much the Raiders were able to get from Adams in his first season. Adams’s numbers, to be sure, were fantastic with Carr in there (88 catches, 1,290 yards, 12 TDs). But even still, there was a lot of meat left on the bone with Vegas’s headlining acquisition of 2022.
So what’s next? My sense would be there’ll be a market for Carr. The Jets, Commanders and Panthers are three teams that should be looking, with teams that are ready to win now, and Carr would join Jimmy Garoppolo in a class of free-agent quarterbacks with experience and, almost certainly, an ability to come in and improve the position quickly. As for the Raiders, my sense would be they’ll give Carr’s camp permission to seek a trade ahead of the mid-February deadline, to see whether they can get anything for him. And if Carr isn’t inclined to help the team after all this (definitely possible), he could well sit on his hands, wield his no-trade clause and force them to cut him. After that, my understanding is the Raiders will look hard at the idea of bringing in Tom Brady or Jimmy Garoppolo, with their connections to Josh McDaniels and Dave Ziegler. Either way, for the Raiders and Carr, it’s over.
As is probably obvious, the Raiders’ decision to move off Derek Carr wasn’t just about getting a chance to evaluate Jarrett Stidham. Or really about that much at all. It was about protecting the team from an injury guarantee of $40.4 million vesting, in case Carr got hurt and couldn’t pass a physical in mid-February. So between now and Feb. 15 (if Carr’s on the roster that day at 4 p.m. ET, the $40.4 million becomes fully guaranteed), the Raiders will seek a resolution to move their quarterback of nine years off the roster. Why? Well, there are a few reasons for it, beyond just his 63–79 record as a starter, which, to be fair, is in part on him and in part a product of his surroundings.
• The first issue, as I understand it, connects to his fit with a new culture that draws hard lines on toughness and accountability. The second and third can be drawn from there.
• On the former—toughness—Carr has had a reputation for not hanging in the pocket, letting plays develop and taking a hit to strike downfield. That showed at times. One was against the Steelers in Week 16, on third-and-5 in the fourth quarter, with 3:07 left. The Steelers got pushed up the middle and rather than hold the ball and buy time, Carr quickly threw it over Davante Adams’s head and into the bench area—when Adams was in single coverage and would’ve had a chance to make a play downfield. Other issues from earlier in his career (like his ability to play in the cold) resurfaced, as well.
• On the latter—accountability—there was a feeling, among coaches and players, that Carr hadn’t shouldered his share of the blame for the mountain of close losses that piled up over the weeks, with the Thursday-night loss to the Rams, a prime example.
• The fourth element I could ascertain was an ability to make the plays to turn close losses into wins, with Carr missing a wide-open Hunter Renfrow high on his game-sealing pick in Pittsburgh as the most recent example.
• And fifth, and this relates back to knowing when to take risks with the ball, is how much the Raiders were able to get from Adams in his first season. Adams’s numbers, to be sure, were fantastic with Carr in there (88 catches, 1,290 yards, 12 TDs). But even still, there was a lot of meat left on the bone with Vegas’s headlining acquisition of 2022.
So what’s next? My sense would be there’ll be a market for Carr. The Jets, Commanders and Panthers are three teams that should be looking, with teams that are ready to win now, and Carr would join Jimmy Garoppolo in a class of free-agent quarterbacks with experience and, almost certainly, an ability to come in and improve the position quickly. As for the Raiders, my sense would be they’ll give Carr’s camp permission to seek a trade ahead of the mid-February deadline, to see whether they can get anything for him. And if Carr isn’t inclined to help the team after all this (definitely possible), he could well sit on his hands, wield his no-trade clause and force them to cut him. After that, my understanding is the Raiders will look hard at the idea of bringing in Tom Brady or Jimmy Garoppolo, with their connections to Josh McDaniels and Dave Ziegler. Either way, for the Raiders and Carr, it’s over.
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Willmark
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[quote=NoClapsPlease post_id=1119405]That’s second hand information based on speculations and assumptions.
I need a video of mark Davis denying it[/quote]Prove a negative? That’s not how it works.
I need a video of mark Davis denying it[/quote]Prove a negative? That’s not how it works.
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Rte66BBQ
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[quote=Attyla post_id=1119448]not gonna happen. he is out to prove the Raiders wrong. If he gets into a Gruden era Bucs type team, he might just do it.[/quote]IMO that Carr is often driven to prove people wrong. While that type of motivation works well for him in red-shirt season, it doesn't last for an entire regular season. Hence the fading play down the stretch. Resentment only goes so far.
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Dark Horse
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[quote=chucker post_id=1119480]IMO the talk that he would be playing for his job the last 4 games was always BS. By the time we were 2-7 it was over.[/quote]Absolutely, and perhaps a little before then. But let's do the shock and awe thing for appearance sake. 
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GoodTimeCharlie
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[quote=Rte66BBQ post_id=1119499]IMO that Carr is often driven to prove people wrong. While that type of motivation works well for him in red-shirt season, it doesn't last for an entire regular season. Hence the fading play down the stretch. Resentment only goes so far.[/quote]“Everyone has a plan until they get hit In the mouth” - Mike Tyson
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Rte66BBQ
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[quote=Kienic post_id=1119424]Lord we love infighting, Davis could well have instigated the trade but it's easier for people to blame Hue for the draft capital used when maybe Mark got fleeced instead, and no doubt Mark could have asked Hue 'where do we get a QB asap' and Palmer was suggested by Huey and Mark ran with it,
Hue was shafted by Reggie and was certainly better than what we got as his replacement, and it's easy to throw crap at Hue over the GM roll, Al passed after decades in charge and a void was left (Al's fault, now succession was in order too) that had NEVER been felt before so it's easy to throw blame around.[/quote]Hue wasn't shafted by Reggie. It's standard business practice to let go of interim's who are advocating for keeping their temp position. Companies don't want to set up potential power struggles and create a divide in an organization.
Hue was shafted by Reggie and was certainly better than what we got as his replacement, and it's easy to throw crap at Hue over the GM roll, Al passed after decades in charge and a void was left (Al's fault, now succession was in order too) that had NEVER been felt before so it's easy to throw blame around.[/quote]Hue wasn't shafted by Reggie. It's standard business practice to let go of interim's who are advocating for keeping their temp position. Companies don't want to set up potential power struggles and create a divide in an organization.
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Dark Horse
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Opoponax50
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[quote=Goodtimes333 post_id=1119430]Two things under radar on Stidham is the defense has to finally respect the screen & play action. Derek can't do play action & he can't run screens. That's pure confidence in your ability to get hit from free rushers. Generally also just caring about the result of the play. There's no excuse whatsoever to be that piss poor at play action[/quote]God. That lame ass play fake was his offseason work ethic in microcosm. It fooled no one. It never froze LBs and it never fooled DBs. Whatever any QBs deficiencies, there are certain things that absolutely can make their game better even if they don't have a great arm, prescient anticipatory throwing ability etc., but Carr's stupid ass, dead-arm play fake was something he just chose to not bother getting better at.
An average of an hour a week during the offseason? He didn't have that kind of time?
Same with his pump fake, a skill that would've gotten us into OT in the playoffs last year, but he just couldn't find the time ingrain that skill and use it with any sort of regularity.
Same with taking advantage of running lanes.
Oh, f[raiders_icon]ck it! He's gone and I'm so glad.
An average of an hour a week during the offseason? He didn't have that kind of time?
Same with his pump fake, a skill that would've gotten us into OT in the playoffs last year, but he just couldn't find the time ingrain that skill and use it with any sort of regularity.
Same with taking advantage of running lanes.
Oh, f[raiders_icon]ck it! He's gone and I'm so glad.
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Opoponax50
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[quote=Attyla post_id=1119448]not gonna happen. he is out to prove the Raiders wrong. If he gets into a Gruden era Bucs type team, he might just do it.[/quote]So all he needs is a time machine. Yet another example of how the Raiders failed to support him properly. How can any QB expect to succeed in this league without a time machine?
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Dark Horse
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Correct, those play fakes sucked dik. Some people here seem to think that players can be coached out of anything when that simple is not true. Strengths and weaknesses are both very real things. Farve never got coached out of gunslinging. Kerry Collins never got coached out of his elongated delivery. Michael Bush ran high. Shaq missed free throws despite working with several different shooting coaches.
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GoodTimeCharlie
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[quote=Attyla post_id=1119427]yea. and of course we will still have discussions regarding the value of the trade or the lack of competence of the GM if we have to cut him. Ironically, we are tied to the guy until well after he retires[/quote]Those last ties that bind will just be threads of schadenfreude and I-told-you-sos born out of the nauseating years of Carrstan contact.
Buhbye Carr. Buhbye Carrstans. Buhbye bullshit.
RNFL
Buhbye Carr. Buhbye Carrstans. Buhbye bullshit.
RNFL
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BlackShield
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it's unfortunate, but human nature
every time stidham [or insert new qb] throws a bad pass, or gets sacked, or whatever, the #4 fans will be out ['i told you so']
but that is no different from abc's saying '#4 wouldn't have made that' every time the new qb makes a completion
it will take a couple of years before the aftereffects of this change plays out with the fan base. some will never get past it.
every time stidham [or insert new qb] throws a bad pass, or gets sacked, or whatever, the #4 fans will be out ['i told you so']
but that is no different from abc's saying '#4 wouldn't have made that' every time the new qb makes a completion
it will take a couple of years before the aftereffects of this change plays out with the fan base. some will never get past it.