Emo Andy Dalton after a trip to Sephora on Groundhog Day (Carr thread)
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RaiderandBulldog
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Attyla
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[quote=NoClapsPlease post_id=1109158]quick research debunks this -
since carr entered the league, we have been ranked 17 in 3rd down conversion percentages - middle of the pack, right in line with our offensive rank average being at 15 since he's entered the league.
Worst ranked year was his rookie year where we were ranked 28th[/quote]Actually, no matter what, since football is complimentary, you cannot refute that the failings of the offense affect the defense and thus the game
but nice try
since carr entered the league, we have been ranked 17 in 3rd down conversion percentages - middle of the pack, right in line with our offensive rank average being at 15 since he's entered the league.
Worst ranked year was his rookie year where we were ranked 28th[/quote]Actually, no matter what, since football is complimentary, you cannot refute that the failings of the offense affect the defense and thus the game
but nice try
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NoClapsPlease
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[quote=Attyla post_id=1109160]Actually, no matter what, since football is complimentary, you cannot refute that the failings of the offense affect the defense and thus the game
but nice try[/quote]but i've just shown proof that the offense performs at a higher level than the defense, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
the 3 and out stuff didnt work - now we got the red zone stuff (rank 17th since 2014 BTW)
what's next?
I'd be more receptive to "I just don't like the way Carr plays and I want to see someone else at QB"
the truth will set you free, as they say.
but nice try[/quote]but i've just shown proof that the offense performs at a higher level than the defense, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
the 3 and out stuff didnt work - now we got the red zone stuff (rank 17th since 2014 BTW)
what's next?
I'd be more receptive to "I just don't like the way Carr plays and I want to see someone else at QB"
the truth will set you free, as they say.
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Attyla
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[quote=NoClapsPlease post_id=1109167]but i've just shown proof that the offense performs at a higher level than the defense, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
the 3 and out stuff didnt work - now we got the red zone stuff (rank 17th since 2014 BTW)
what's next?
I'd be more receptive to "I just don't like the way Carr plays and I want to see someone else at QB"
the truth will set you free, as they say.[/quote]but that was not your contention. You said football is complimentary. That means if the offense fails, the defense is asked to do more. I am not sure how you can argue that football is complimentary and then deny the complimentary aspect of the game. I do not care about the rankings, the rankings are skewed by the complimentary aspects of the game. And the rankings were not the argument. The argument was that turnovers, three and outs, and failures in the red zone affect the defense and that is correct. Because football is complimentary.
I cannot explain this any more basically.
the 3 and out stuff didnt work - now we got the red zone stuff (rank 17th since 2014 BTW)
what's next?
I'd be more receptive to "I just don't like the way Carr plays and I want to see someone else at QB"
the truth will set you free, as they say.[/quote]but that was not your contention. You said football is complimentary. That means if the offense fails, the defense is asked to do more. I am not sure how you can argue that football is complimentary and then deny the complimentary aspect of the game. I do not care about the rankings, the rankings are skewed by the complimentary aspects of the game. And the rankings were not the argument. The argument was that turnovers, three and outs, and failures in the red zone affect the defense and that is correct. Because football is complimentary.
I cannot explain this any more basically.
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KillerRaider30
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Yes the defense sucks and has sucked for the better part of Carrs 9 years as QB for the Raiders.
We all know that and it's not disputed.
This thread is about Derek Carr and how he sucks also.
It's possible for both to be true at the same time.
The problem I've had over the years is my fear of taking a step back at QB if we make the change.
I've felt 9 years of losing was mostly due to the crappie team construction that includes multiple failures at drafting, continued changes at HC, DC, OC, along with all the other assistant coaches and I'd be right.
The failures of this team is 30% QB and 70% everything else.
The catch is with one fell scope we can fix 30% where as it'll take multiple multiple moves to fix the 70%.
BTW both can be done at the same time but for some reason the Raider refuse to address the 30%. Absolutely refuse!
To research the 70% is time consuming so why bother when we cam hyperphocus on one player. This whats happening.
I mean who cares we haven't had a up and coming ML with promise for a decade+.
Same goes for a dominant DT (which all great defenses have) just saying.
Corner? One or two C+ to B players on the roster for a year at a time. Maybe 2years but we haven't had a shut down corner entrenched as a starter with a 4y contact since idk.
I can go on and on and at one time I did and I wasn't wrong.
Its all true.
Its also true we do not have a QB that drives a team to victory regardless of the circumstances.
One that demands victory and will go out of his was and off script to ensure it.
One that commands the players around him play at a winning level and without fear of hurting their feeling will let them know about it on field.
We know what we have in Carr or better said, we all know what we don't have in Derek.
So we draft a QB and he's below average. Isn't that what Carr is?
Average or below for most of his career?
So we draft a QB at 8, he sucks and we finish with 5-7 wins. Whats the diff?
At least those 5-7 wins aren't costing 40 million a year.
That difference equals a DT and shut down corner.
I hate to say it but if we were to lose the rest of these games and secure a high pick to use on a rookie QB id be 50% ok with it.
Call me a dick or whatever but I dont think I'm alone in thinking it. Maybe alone in printing it.
Whatever. When Carr was drafted I was 46yo, now I'm 55.
When? When do make the move?
Are we going to keep him till I'm 60?
His contract says yea maybe. f[raiders_icon]ck
15 years? The team acts like we have a HOF at QB and we don't
Not even close
We all know that and it's not disputed.
This thread is about Derek Carr and how he sucks also.
It's possible for both to be true at the same time.
The problem I've had over the years is my fear of taking a step back at QB if we make the change.
I've felt 9 years of losing was mostly due to the crappie team construction that includes multiple failures at drafting, continued changes at HC, DC, OC, along with all the other assistant coaches and I'd be right.
The failures of this team is 30% QB and 70% everything else.
The catch is with one fell scope we can fix 30% where as it'll take multiple multiple moves to fix the 70%.
BTW both can be done at the same time but for some reason the Raider refuse to address the 30%. Absolutely refuse!
To research the 70% is time consuming so why bother when we cam hyperphocus on one player. This whats happening.
I mean who cares we haven't had a up and coming ML with promise for a decade+.
Same goes for a dominant DT (which all great defenses have) just saying.
Corner? One or two C+ to B players on the roster for a year at a time. Maybe 2years but we haven't had a shut down corner entrenched as a starter with a 4y contact since idk.
I can go on and on and at one time I did and I wasn't wrong.
Its all true.
Its also true we do not have a QB that drives a team to victory regardless of the circumstances.
One that demands victory and will go out of his was and off script to ensure it.
One that commands the players around him play at a winning level and without fear of hurting their feeling will let them know about it on field.
We know what we have in Carr or better said, we all know what we don't have in Derek.
So we draft a QB and he's below average. Isn't that what Carr is?
Average or below for most of his career?
So we draft a QB at 8, he sucks and we finish with 5-7 wins. Whats the diff?
At least those 5-7 wins aren't costing 40 million a year.
That difference equals a DT and shut down corner.
I hate to say it but if we were to lose the rest of these games and secure a high pick to use on a rookie QB id be 50% ok with it.
Call me a dick or whatever but I dont think I'm alone in thinking it. Maybe alone in printing it.
Whatever. When Carr was drafted I was 46yo, now I'm 55.
When? When do make the move?
Are we going to keep him till I'm 60?
His contract says yea maybe. f[raiders_icon]ck
15 years? The team acts like we have a HOF at QB and we don't
Not even close
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Jeremyturner1976
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[quote=NoClapsPlease post_id=1109157]Not sure where you got that stat line from
Our offense has been ranked right at #15 since he's entered the league. If Carr was so bad, we wouldn't have twist stats to prove it and the very fact that we all can agree that he holds significant trade value contradicts everything ever told in this thread. This comes down to you either liking the guy or not liking the guy - very little to do how his play impacts the team as a whole.
in what universe do we expect a QB's win percentage to not be impacted by a defense that's been in the bottom 3rd his entire career?
2022 - #8
2021 - #11
2020 - #8
2019 - #11
2018 - #23
2017 - #18
2016 - #6
2015 - #24
2014 - #31[/quote]The fact that the offense ranks as average has nothing to do with the fact that bad offenses have improved at the most important position. So they may have some worse years, but only 9 teams have scored less points than us.
Overall, our offense is 23rd because we have stuck with an average QB who wilts under pressure. Carr himself is 31st out of 37 (Trash tier) for QBs with more than 50 starts since '14. That is how that works.
Go ahead and look up offensive spending compared to defense. Those offensive stats are because we bought one of the best offensive supporting casts and have invested more in offensive draft picks since '18. The defense is bottom 10 because we put bottom 10 resources into it.
Good luck building an offense that can carry Carr, building and keeping a top 5 defense - then hoping for success while Carr chokes past game 9 every single year. It cannot be done. That is not emotional, just realistic.
.500 seasons are not the goal. One and dones are not the goal. Quit being scared of losing something the Bears did twice with Trubisky.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JoshDubowAP/ ... 7961445376
Our offense has been ranked right at #15 since he's entered the league. If Carr was so bad, we wouldn't have twist stats to prove it and the very fact that we all can agree that he holds significant trade value contradicts everything ever told in this thread. This comes down to you either liking the guy or not liking the guy - very little to do how his play impacts the team as a whole.
in what universe do we expect a QB's win percentage to not be impacted by a defense that's been in the bottom 3rd his entire career?
2022 - #8
2021 - #11
2020 - #8
2019 - #11
2018 - #23
2017 - #18
2016 - #6
2015 - #24
2014 - #31[/quote]The fact that the offense ranks as average has nothing to do with the fact that bad offenses have improved at the most important position. So they may have some worse years, but only 9 teams have scored less points than us.
Overall, our offense is 23rd because we have stuck with an average QB who wilts under pressure. Carr himself is 31st out of 37 (Trash tier) for QBs with more than 50 starts since '14. That is how that works.
Go ahead and look up offensive spending compared to defense. Those offensive stats are because we bought one of the best offensive supporting casts and have invested more in offensive draft picks since '18. The defense is bottom 10 because we put bottom 10 resources into it.
Good luck building an offense that can carry Carr, building and keeping a top 5 defense - then hoping for success while Carr chokes past game 9 every single year. It cannot be done. That is not emotional, just realistic.
.500 seasons are not the goal. One and dones are not the goal. Quit being scared of losing something the Bears did twice with Trubisky.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JoshDubowAP/ ... 7961445376
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sdraider85
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Clappy must have been using yards, we know that trick. It’s the one they have been using since day one. Unfortunately points are what matters and DC isn’t capable of them. 
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Raidernation1979
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He is also one of the worst quarterbacks in the red zone. I would look at teams that’s in the red zone look at his personal numbers, completion percentage touchdown interception he is abysmal
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Raidernation1979
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18th or worse seven out of is nine years. I’m sure that will be ignored.
https://twitter.com/joshdubowap/status/ ... 00?lang=en
https://twitter.com/joshdubowap/status/ ... 00?lang=en
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sdraider85
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LOL at DC fans always trying to rewrite history until facts come ruining everything.
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352Raider
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[quote=NoClapsPlease post_id=1109167]but i've just shown proof that the offense performs at a higher level than the defense, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
the 3 and out stuff didnt work - now we got the red zone stuff (rank 17th since 2014 BTW)
what's next?
I'd be more receptive to "I just don't like the way Carr plays and I want to see someone else at QB"
the truth will set you free, as they say.[/quote]https://media.tenor.com/XsAjNAhIQ3sAAAA ... xplode.gif
the 3 and out stuff didnt work - now we got the red zone stuff (rank 17th since 2014 BTW)
what's next?
I'd be more receptive to "I just don't like the way Carr plays and I want to see someone else at QB"
the truth will set you free, as they say.[/quote]https://media.tenor.com/XsAjNAhIQ3sAAAA ... xplode.gif
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Dark Horse
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[quote=NoClapsPlease post_id=1109153]Football is complimentary. Has our offense been in the bottom third despite all the 3 and outs you mentioned? So an average Offense makes a defense below average. So in order to have an average defense, you need an elite offense. No one told the niners that. Your math doesn’t math, sir.[/quote]Maybe because I did not express any math, but nice straw man. Your QB hasn't been able to score in the redzone for 5 years. Your QB doesn't convert 3rd downs with his legs to extend drives and allow the defense to rest. Your QB can't score in the second half. None of these attributes are complimentary to a defense.
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Dark Horse
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[quote=NoClapsPlease post_id=1109157]Not sure where you got that stat line from
Our offense has been ranked right at #15 since he's entered the league. If Carr was so bad, we wouldn't have twist stats to prove it and the very fact that we all can agree that he holds significant trade value contradicts everything ever told in this thread. This comes down to you either liking the guy or not liking the guy - very little to do how his play impacts the team as a whole.
in what universe do we expect a QB's win percentage to not be impacted by a defense that's been in the bottom 3rd his entire career?
2022 - #8
2021 - #11
2020 - #8
2019 - #11
2018 - #23
2017 - #18
2016 - #6
2015 - #24
2014 - #31[/quote]Rankings based on yards, cute. points win games and Carr puts up 21 on average.
Our offense has been ranked right at #15 since he's entered the league. If Carr was so bad, we wouldn't have twist stats to prove it and the very fact that we all can agree that he holds significant trade value contradicts everything ever told in this thread. This comes down to you either liking the guy or not liking the guy - very little to do how his play impacts the team as a whole.
in what universe do we expect a QB's win percentage to not be impacted by a defense that's been in the bottom 3rd his entire career?
2022 - #8
2021 - #11
2020 - #8
2019 - #11
2018 - #23
2017 - #18
2016 - #6
2015 - #24
2014 - #31[/quote]Rankings based on yards, cute. points win games and Carr puts up 21 on average.
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Dark Horse
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[quote=NoClapsPlease post_id=1109158]quick research debunks this -
since carr entered the league, we have been ranked 17 in 3rd down conversion percentages - middle of the pack, right in line with our offensive rank average being at 15 since he's entered the league.
Worst ranked year was his rookie year where we were ranked 28th[/quote]That's a nice slight of hand there. When exactly was the context of the discussion reduced to where one side of the ball "ranks" over the other? Your brand of complimentary football appears to be when the two are ranked the same. When has that happened with any team?
since carr entered the league, we have been ranked 17 in 3rd down conversion percentages - middle of the pack, right in line with our offensive rank average being at 15 since he's entered the league.
Worst ranked year was his rookie year where we were ranked 28th[/quote]That's a nice slight of hand there. When exactly was the context of the discussion reduced to where one side of the ball "ranks" over the other? Your brand of complimentary football appears to be when the two are ranked the same. When has that happened with any team?
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Attyla
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[quote=Dark Horse post_id=1109194]That's a nice slight of hand there. When exactly was the context of the discussion reduced to where one side of the ball "ranks" over the other? Your brand of complimentary football appears to be when the two are ranked the same. When has that happened with any team?[/quote]he misses stuff like red zone SCORING when he tries to wag the dog.