Emo Andy Dalton after a trip to Sephora on Groundhog Day (Carr thread)
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RaiderandBulldog
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Dark Horse
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[quote=NoClapsPlease post_id=1108955]With an average defense (ranked 12-15) we’d be in the playoffs in each of the last 7-8 years. I think it’s time to work on actually having a defense, it starts with getting a middle linebacker in the first round and solidifying it from there.[/quote]Nothing to do with 3 and outs, ridiculous turnovers, the inability to score in the redzone over multiple seasons, huh?
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Opoponax50
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[quote=sdraider85 post_id=1108744]We have already known Carr is wildly inaccurate and can rarely hit a moving target in stride. His “amazing” throws are on par with backups and rookies. They hit a few per game mostly mixed with average to below average passes.[/quote]Yeah. They see the highlight reel-level throws and think that's who Carr is. But if you watch highlights from other games you'll see nearly every NFL QB make a couple of those throws every game. Carr doesn't do anything extra special, and that doesn't justify being one of the top 10-15 paid players in the league.
This should be a settled matter at this point. Even without Waller and Renfrow, Carr has still had one of the best WRs in the game, one of the best ground games in the league, and a solidly average O-line that's held up pretty well over the course of the season.
He's thrown 20 TDs so far. With 4 games left he's going to have to average 2.5 per game to get to 30, and that's not going to happen. He's having yet another Carr-like year. Lots of things changed and improved around him, but the numbers and the performances remain the same.
This should be a settled matter at this point. Even without Waller and Renfrow, Carr has still had one of the best WRs in the game, one of the best ground games in the league, and a solidly average O-line that's held up pretty well over the course of the season.
He's thrown 20 TDs so far. With 4 games left he's going to have to average 2.5 per game to get to 30, and that's not going to happen. He's having yet another Carr-like year. Lots of things changed and improved around him, but the numbers and the performances remain the same.
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Opoponax50
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[quote=Dark Horse post_id=1108963]Nothing to do with 3 and outs, ridiculous turnovers, the inability to score in the redzone over multiple seasons, huh?[/quote]If Carr was the stud his fans claim he is, he'd be in the 35+ TD pass range per season. That would come out to a little less than 6 more points per game. It would also mean a lot more extended drives, momentum shifts, and the opposing team would have to make different decisions from a disadvantageous position. IOW, while points are the most important thing, the points also affect the game in myriad other ways.
Like I said before, this Carr matter should be settled business. Nine years is an enormous sample size in the NFL.
Like I said before, this Carr matter should be settled business. Nine years is an enormous sample size in the NFL.
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Jeremyturner1976
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To start, the offense as a whole is ranked 23rd with Carr at QB since he entered the league. With a 12-15 defense, we could have made more playoffs but even then the offense would have got us nowhere.
Second, 'Making the playoffs' means nothing if you can't make it anywhere. Does anyone truly think Derek could play 4 straight high level games without a terrible performance that knocks us out of the playoffs.
Mr. Inconsistent and scared of contact would wilt in the playoffs, just like he did last year with a sub 70 passer rating. He is a choker proven through and through.
It requires a top 5 (or higher) defense to go anywhere with Derek, and with a 130 million dollar offense next year - 'drafting defense' won't get us anywhere close. We ain't walking out of the draft with 6 all pro rookies on defense - that is what it would take. We call that a (crack) pipe dream.
Making the playoffs is nowhere near the same as competing deep in the playoffs. Even Chicago had two one and dones with Trubisky - meaningless.
Second, 'Making the playoffs' means nothing if you can't make it anywhere. Does anyone truly think Derek could play 4 straight high level games without a terrible performance that knocks us out of the playoffs.
Mr. Inconsistent and scared of contact would wilt in the playoffs, just like he did last year with a sub 70 passer rating. He is a choker proven through and through.
It requires a top 5 (or higher) defense to go anywhere with Derek, and with a 130 million dollar offense next year - 'drafting defense' won't get us anywhere close. We ain't walking out of the draft with 6 all pro rookies on defense - that is what it would take. We call that a (crack) pipe dream.
Making the playoffs is nowhere near the same as competing deep in the playoffs. Even Chicago had two one and dones with Trubisky - meaningless.
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Attyla
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It was cool actually making the playoffs last year given the utter clusterfuck the season around that was. It was actually a pretty up and down game. It had the usual controversy and then.....thud.
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GUYDON
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Carr is that guy at work that is just OK at his job, but always gets the promotion because he is always having lunches with the bosses, and is always acting like a "company first" person. Nothing wrong with that, if thats how you choose to keep your job. But, I dont want that guy as my qb.
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Raiders Baby
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[quote=Jeremyturner1976 post_id=1108996]To start, the offense as a whole is ranked 23rd with Carr at QB since he entered the league. With a 12'15 defense, we could have made more playoffs but even then the offense would have got us nowhere.
[/quote]This one always gets me too. Somehow the defense is responsible because it’s not markedly better than the offense? It’s just such a different set of standards.
No matter how much the defense does, if we don’t win it didn’t do enough. Doesn’t matter how many points the offense scored, if the defense didn’t hold the opposing offense to fewer then they have failed. By that logic, if the defense shut out the opposing team but we didn’t score on offense, the tie is their fault for not scoring a defensive TD.
Don’t get me wrong; not defending the defense, it isn’t good. But even what it IS good (like holding the opposing team under 20 points) we are still among the worst in the league — save the “with a better defense” stuff for fluff pieces and casual fans, it’s been debunked here 10,000 times and anyone who watches this team consistently knows it’s an incomplete narrative (at best)
[/quote]This one always gets me too. Somehow the defense is responsible because it’s not markedly better than the offense? It’s just such a different set of standards.
No matter how much the defense does, if we don’t win it didn’t do enough. Doesn’t matter how many points the offense scored, if the defense didn’t hold the opposing offense to fewer then they have failed. By that logic, if the defense shut out the opposing team but we didn’t score on offense, the tie is their fault for not scoring a defensive TD.
Don’t get me wrong; not defending the defense, it isn’t good. But even what it IS good (like holding the opposing team under 20 points) we are still among the worst in the league — save the “with a better defense” stuff for fluff pieces and casual fans, it’s been debunked here 10,000 times and anyone who watches this team consistently knows it’s an incomplete narrative (at best)
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signal
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[quote=Jeremyturner1976 post_id=1108996]To start, the offense as a whole is ranked 23rd with Carr at QB since he entered the league. With a 12'15 defense, we could have made more playoffs but even then the offense would have got us nowhere.
Second, 'Making the playoffs' means nothing if you can't make it anywhere. Does anyone truly think Derek could play 4 straight high level games without a terrible performance that knocks us out of the playoffs.
Mr. Inconsistent and scared of contact would wilt in the playoffs, just like he did last year with a sub 70 passer rating. He is a choker proven through and through.
It requires a top 5 (or higher) defense to go anywhere with Derek, and with a 130 million dollar offense next year - 'drafting defense' won't get us anywhere close. We ain't walking out of the draft with 6 all pro rookies on defense - that is what it would take. We call that a (crack) pipe dream.
Making the playoffs is nowhere near the same as competing deep in the playoffs. Even Chicago had two one and dones with Trubisky - meaningless.[/quote]Must agree. I would add that it appears, that as the season wears on, Carr usually plays less effective. Last year, yes, the Raiders went on a run and made the playoffs but for the most part, it was the defense that carried them there.
While I agree that Carr folds in the face of adversity and well playoff games are usually chalk full of it - given you are playing only the best teams game after game, so do not see him faring well in that situation; I would add that I am beginning to question his mental fortitude to play a long grueling season and still have the stuff to play his best at the end of the season and into the playoffs.
I know I am no expert, but given everything I have seen, I am fully convinced the Raiders will NEVER accomplish anything substantial with Carr behind center. And keeping Carr and trying to build a top 5 D is a pipe dream. Just far too much capital has to be expended on offense to make Carr even viable....so what is left to spend on D?
Next year some of the contracts for the offensive weapons (including Carr) begin to balloon and if the organization decides to keep them than it will be another year of being on this forum listening to many blame it on the D....while the offense plays average making the huge bucks.
This year Carr was blessed with arguably the best WR in the game AND the best RB in the game. And even with that, his numbers are pedestrian. Give Herbert...well many other QBs those two weapons and imagine the amount of TDs they would put up. Carr has been given elite weapons and STILL the offense stalls in the red zone. Carr is a disaster when it comes to red zone offense. He simply is one of the worst in the league at QB when inside the 20. How in the hell are you going to win with that?????
Second, 'Making the playoffs' means nothing if you can't make it anywhere. Does anyone truly think Derek could play 4 straight high level games without a terrible performance that knocks us out of the playoffs.
Mr. Inconsistent and scared of contact would wilt in the playoffs, just like he did last year with a sub 70 passer rating. He is a choker proven through and through.
It requires a top 5 (or higher) defense to go anywhere with Derek, and with a 130 million dollar offense next year - 'drafting defense' won't get us anywhere close. We ain't walking out of the draft with 6 all pro rookies on defense - that is what it would take. We call that a (crack) pipe dream.
Making the playoffs is nowhere near the same as competing deep in the playoffs. Even Chicago had two one and dones with Trubisky - meaningless.[/quote]Must agree. I would add that it appears, that as the season wears on, Carr usually plays less effective. Last year, yes, the Raiders went on a run and made the playoffs but for the most part, it was the defense that carried them there.
While I agree that Carr folds in the face of adversity and well playoff games are usually chalk full of it - given you are playing only the best teams game after game, so do not see him faring well in that situation; I would add that I am beginning to question his mental fortitude to play a long grueling season and still have the stuff to play his best at the end of the season and into the playoffs.
I know I am no expert, but given everything I have seen, I am fully convinced the Raiders will NEVER accomplish anything substantial with Carr behind center. And keeping Carr and trying to build a top 5 D is a pipe dream. Just far too much capital has to be expended on offense to make Carr even viable....so what is left to spend on D?
Next year some of the contracts for the offensive weapons (including Carr) begin to balloon and if the organization decides to keep them than it will be another year of being on this forum listening to many blame it on the D....while the offense plays average making the huge bucks.
This year Carr was blessed with arguably the best WR in the game AND the best RB in the game. And even with that, his numbers are pedestrian. Give Herbert...well many other QBs those two weapons and imagine the amount of TDs they would put up. Carr has been given elite weapons and STILL the offense stalls in the red zone. Carr is a disaster when it comes to red zone offense. He simply is one of the worst in the league at QB when inside the 20. How in the hell are you going to win with that?????
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HesterLayes
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[quote=signal post_id=1109001]Must agree. I would add that it appears, that as the season wears on, Carr usually plays less effective. Last year, yes, the Raiders went on a run and made the playoffs but for the most part, it was the defense that carried them there.
While I agree that Carr folds in the face of adversity and well playoff games are usually chalk full of it - given you are playing only the best teams game after game, so do not see him faring well in that situation; I would add that I am beginning to question his mental fortitude to play a long grueling season and still have the stuff to play his best at the end of the season and into the playoffs.
I know I am no expert, but given everything I have seen, I am fully convinced the Raiders will NEVER accomplish anything substantial with Carr behind center. And keeping Carr and trying to build a top 5 D is a pipe dream. Just far too much capital has to be expended on offense to make Carr even viable....so what is left to spend on D?
Next year some of the contracts for the offensive weapons (including Carr) begin to balloon and if the organization decides to keep them than it will be another year of being on this forum listening to many blame it on the D....while the offense plays average making the huge bucks.
This year Carr was blessed with arguably the best WR in the game AND the best RB in the game. And even with that, his numbers are pedestrian. Give Herbert...well many other QBs those two weapons and imagine the amount of TDs they would put up. Carr has been given elite weapons and STILL the offense stalls in the red zone. Carr is a disaster when it comes to red zone offense. He simply is one of the worst in the league at QB when inside the 20. How in the hell are you going to win with that?????[/quote]Geez...give him some time
While I agree that Carr folds in the face of adversity and well playoff games are usually chalk full of it - given you are playing only the best teams game after game, so do not see him faring well in that situation; I would add that I am beginning to question his mental fortitude to play a long grueling season and still have the stuff to play his best at the end of the season and into the playoffs.
I know I am no expert, but given everything I have seen, I am fully convinced the Raiders will NEVER accomplish anything substantial with Carr behind center. And keeping Carr and trying to build a top 5 D is a pipe dream. Just far too much capital has to be expended on offense to make Carr even viable....so what is left to spend on D?
Next year some of the contracts for the offensive weapons (including Carr) begin to balloon and if the organization decides to keep them than it will be another year of being on this forum listening to many blame it on the D....while the offense plays average making the huge bucks.
This year Carr was blessed with arguably the best WR in the game AND the best RB in the game. And even with that, his numbers are pedestrian. Give Herbert...well many other QBs those two weapons and imagine the amount of TDs they would put up. Carr has been given elite weapons and STILL the offense stalls in the red zone. Carr is a disaster when it comes to red zone offense. He simply is one of the worst in the league at QB when inside the 20. How in the hell are you going to win with that?????[/quote]Geez...give him some time
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GUYDON
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A defense can be helped a great deal by the offense too. You can get first down when the def is gassed, you can be consistent, you can push harder to score when the defense isnt showing up that day. The defense can feed of the offense and the QB. The defense always seems to be in an awkward position where the offense just goes ice cold for long stretches. The defense hasnt been great, but the offense hasnt been doing them a lot of favors either. I think carr's super up and down nature effects everyone.
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Oaktownonly
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[quote=Dark Horse post_id=1108963]Nothing to do with 3 and outs, ridiculous turnovers, the inability to score in the redzone over multiple seasons, huh?[/quote]"These are not the facts you seek". - Obi Wan Kinobi
Or something like that.
Or something like that.
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Attyla
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[quote=GUYDON post_id=1109041]A defense can be helped a great deal by the offense too. You can get first down when the def is gassed, you can be consistent, you can push harder to score when the defense isnt showing up that day. The defense can feed of the offense and the QB. The defense always seems to be in an awkward position where the offense just goes ice cold for long stretches. The defense hasnt been great, but the offense hasnt been doing them a lot of favors either. I think carr's super up and down nature effects everyone.[/quote]ironically this offense this year is the perfect one for the defense. Running the ball like we do should be killing the clock and keeping the defense off the field and fresh. The defense is a problem, but the offense and particularly the pass offense is doing us absolutely no favors.
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GoodTimeCharlie
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Articles that have us trading Carr. Interesting. Unfortunately no 1st, but we knew that.
“ Las Vegas Raiders Receive: Jets 2023 second-round pick, 2024 second-round pick
New York Jets Receive: QB Derek Carr”
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/100 ... -offseason
“ Las Vegas Raiders Receive: Jets 2023 second-round pick, 2024 second-round pick
New York Jets Receive: QB Derek Carr”
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/100 ... -offseason
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HesterLayes
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[quote=GoodTimeCharlie post_id=1109093]Articles that have us trading Carr. Interesting. Unfortunately no 1st, but we knew that.
“ Las Vegas Raiders Receive: Jets 2023 second-round pick, 2024 second-round pick
New York Jets Receive: QB Derek Carr”
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/100 ... -offseason[/quote]I wish this would happen
“ Las Vegas Raiders Receive: Jets 2023 second-round pick, 2024 second-round pick
New York Jets Receive: QB Derek Carr”
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/100 ... -offseason[/quote]I wish this would happen
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Amish Cabal
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[quote=GoodTimeCharlie post_id=1109093]Articles that have us trading Carr. Interesting. Unfortunately no 1st, but we knew that.
“ Las Vegas Raiders Receive: Jets 2023 second-round pick, 2024 second-round pick
New York Jets Receive: QB Derek Carr”
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/100 ... -offseason[/quote]That's just mental masturbation man. Quit it. The only dipshit alive who would pay out that contract is Mark Davis, let alone give up draft picks for that f[raiders_icon]cking loser. He'll be cut, and we won't get squat in return. And that's all he's worth. Not a cent more.
“ Las Vegas Raiders Receive: Jets 2023 second-round pick, 2024 second-round pick
New York Jets Receive: QB Derek Carr”
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/100 ... -offseason[/quote]That's just mental masturbation man. Quit it. The only dipshit alive who would pay out that contract is Mark Davis, let alone give up draft picks for that f[raiders_icon]cking loser. He'll be cut, and we won't get squat in return. And that's all he's worth. Not a cent more.