Hall of Fame Makes Significant Changes

[Atlasffa]

[ALLRAIDERWORLD21]

Because every year the group of newer options loggerjam. The older guys who were fringe options will be pushed out by newer options. The voters are going to remember the newer guys influence far more than guys like Plunkett

I disagree with that, there will definitely still be old timers getting in. With the advent and pervasiveness of social media, you can make anyone look current if you’re trying to lobby for them. You start campaigning for someone and start bombarding someone’s feeds with the short videos of the player you want in..thats how it works nowadays.

[Reno Hightower]

His injury created the WC offense because Virgil Carter's arm wasn't like Cook's (no one's was). So by necessity, Walsh had to figure something out.

In steps Kenny Anderson.

I don't have it in front of me but Walsh later said something along the lines of if Cook had not gotten hurt the WC offense would have been very different with him running it.

Walsh actually gleaned a lot of his offensive philosophy from Al and by extension Sid Gillman so in some respects the WCO finds its bones in the vertical schemes favored by Al, who ironically hated the WCO.

I'll wager that Plunkett would have found the same success that Bradshaw did had he been drafted by Pittsburgh not New England. Both shared similar physical traits though Plunkett had better mobility. Plunkett's stat line his rookie year were actually pretty elite considering the era.

[Sold My Soul]

OMG!!!!!!!!!! Change shit because bill bilecheat was snubbed....

Well f[raiders_icon]ck me.

Let's all go get a happy ending massage.....

[Willmark]

OMG!!!!!!!!!! Change shit because bill bilecheat was snubbed....

Well f[raiders_icon]ck me.

Let's all go get a happy ending massage.....

Personally I thought it was highly amusing Darth Hoodie didn't get in on the first try.

He was an ass-hat to reporters for years, with some epic level trolling to be sure. But at the same time those are the guys voting on who gets into the HOF; probably not the best move there Bill.

[STHfrontrow]

It's crazy that Bill doesn't qualify for the hall of fame.

[Attyla]

I disagree with that, there will definitely still be old timers getting in. With the advent and pervasiveness of social media, you can make anyone look current if you’re trying to lobby for them. You start campaigning for someone and start bombarding someone’s feeds with the short videos of the player you want in..thats how it works nowadays.

So, you need 80% to get in. The max is 7 with one going to a coach/contributor. This next crop includes Gronk, Peterson and Rothlesburger. Holt is a returning option and he did not make it to the final vote last year. Willie Anderson, Suggs and Yanda will be automatic finalists. You have Gore to consider as well.

The old timers did not make it during their years on the ballot in the old system because of two things. Either they were not strong enough vs the peers or there was a logjam that kept them out. Guys like Anderson and even Plunkett are going to have a hard time getting into the conversation vs the above crop. Torry Holt did not make it to the final group and he had a strong career getting passes from one of the greatest of all time. Gronk to me is a shoe in. Same with Rothlesburger. Belichick will get in as the coach. Peterson's antics off the field might keep him out or maybe not. That is three to four right there. Suggs should be in with Yanda a strong option as well. I like Gore to finally get in as well. Now we are at 5 to 6 with a close guy rounding out the group.

And it is 25 guys now voting, cut in half from the old system. They need 20 votes to get in. The tape on the older guys, well, let's just say there is tape but not like the guys today. It is going to be even harder for the old guys to get in now that they are competing with guys these voters actually watched play live. There are guys who saw the old timers, sort of. We have to remember, before the advent of things like ESPN and the cable sports channels, you had at most 3 games you could watch each week. First game was on NBC, second game on CBS and the Monday night game on ABC. Other than that, the networks gave you about 5 minutes at most of football highlights. That was it. Hell, for the longest time, the first Super Bowl tapes were lost. There were snippets and that was it. It was not until 2005 that a partial tape of that game was found. That discovery has about 75% of the game and that is it. Regular season games? Stuff from the 60s and 70s is extremely hit and miss. There is more of the 80s stuff out there with the invention of VCRs but finding full tape on a guy like Plunkett is next to impossible. Especially his NE days. Billy Wilson is considered the best player from the 50's not in the Hall. I don't know that there is 10 minutes worth of tape on the guy that you could find. Hell both Shula and Walsh advocated for his induction and I doubt you can make a case today based on eye witness accounts. At the time of his retirement, he was one of the top receivers in yards and TDs. Hell, I did not know who he was but he was at a sports signing show I attended. I paid 20 bucks for an autograph just because it was 20 bucks. I lost that picture a long time ago. I learned he was an assistant coach under Walsh and others.

That is what the old timers are going to be competing against. The younger guys and time. And time is a bitch when it comes to a player. I went around my house looking at my autograph collection. I saw John Vella's on a ball. I had forgotten I even had it. I saw my Tatum and that sparked some great memories, but it took me looking around to remember those guys. Time is the real dream killer.

I hope you are right. I hope these older warriors get consideration and some get in. I have my doubts though.

[Willmark]

The voters themselves should draw scrutiny IMO.

Consider: Paul "Ken Stabler won't get my vote as long as I live" Zimmerman. Did he single-handedly keep Snake out? Probably not, but such vociferous opposition (likley) did help to keep him out during Snake's lifetime.

When a sports reporter comes out and admits that it throws into question their previous voting.

[SkullCrusher]

The voters themselves should draw scrutiny IMO.

Consider: Paul "Ken Stabler won't get my vote as long as I live" Zimmerman. Did he single-handedly keep Snake out? Probably not, but such vociferous opposition (likley) did help to keep him out during Snake's lifetime.

When a sports reporter comes out and admits that it throws into question their previous voting.

It's a well known story and I get some type of resentment in the moment for even petty reasons, it happens.
But my God what could Stabler really have done to make a person make a lifetime proclamation of hate on him?
I mean there are things that could happen, but Stabler was a football player, not some homicidal killer.
Did he sleep with the Mrs's, that's the only thing I can think of? OMG he slept with Paul's wife!

[Reno Hightower]

I never understood Zimmerman's hate campaign against Snake.

[Willmark]

It's a well known story and I get some type of resentment in the moment for even petty reasons, it happens.
But my God what could Stabler really have done to make a person make a lifetime proclamation of hate on him?
I mean there are things that could happen, but Stabler was a football player, not some homicidal killer.
Did he sleep with the Mrs's, that's the only thing I can think of? OMG he slept with Paul's wife!

Who knows? I was way too young when Paul got a burr up his ass about Snake.

Searches say its because of his "irresponsibility, lifestyle, drinking, etc" I don't believe that because if true why did Namath get in (rhetorical question there.)

Then there is this: The Bob Padecky incident
https://theforumcelebritypodcast.wordpr ... l-of-fame/

I've heard of this before but as to the accuracy as to all of it? Your guess is as good as mine as to who planted what.

[SkullCrusher]

Who knows? I was way too young when Paul got a burr up his ass about Snake.

Searches say its because of his "irresponsibility, lifestyle, drinking, etc" I don't believe that because if true why did Namath get in (rhetorical question there.)

Then there is this: The Bob Padecky incident
https://theforumcelebritypodcast.wordpr ... l-of-fame/

I've heard of this before but as to the accuracy as to all of it? Your guess is as good as mine as to who planted what.

Thanks, that explains it, right or wrong on all ends, that explains it. I don't think I ever heard of that story.

[CWood24]

All that hate came back on Zimmerman when he had his strokes, you get the energy back that you give out in this world

I’ve always said the only thing that should matter is your peers not some jumped up journalist that might have a personal issue with you or your acquaintances

Let the players, coaches, & GM’s vote then leave it at that. No media guys or fans cause they can never be impartial.

[Attyla]

OMG!!!!!!!!!! Change shit because bill bilecheat was snubbed....

Well f[raiders_icon]ck me.

Let's all go get a happy ending massage.....

If you had read the articles, you would have understood that the changes enacted had been in review for a couple years. Belichick gets the blame for the changes but that was long after they had begun to fix what they thought was broken. Dropping the voters to 25? I think the number is not that relevant. But I have no problem with any random number. They could have said 37 and made some justification. Limiting the class to 7? Well, artificially that had essentially been the case as you need 80% to get in. Removing the seniors category? While I think there is a good reason to keep it, ultimately let's get the best players in. I go back and forth on Anderson and Plunkett. I can make a case for both but neither case is strong enough to get them in, most days. I am a fan of the Raiders so biased toward my guys and Plunkett won 2 so there is that. If Eli gets in, god forbid, I will be more vocal about Plunkett. Anderson? His case is tricky. He played in an era where completion percentage was not great, but he falls below that. His average of a single TD per game (well, just over that) is not stellar. His INT rate was high, and particularly when it mattered most. But the guy took a lot of sacks, and had 9 in one playoff year. That is really not getting it done when it mattered most. He never really dominated. He was more of an also ran guy. HIs best year was 1981 and it was a good year. No doubt. But most his other years paled in comparison.

Now, that all said, Lester to me, that guy got jobbed because he used stickum and at times played a bit dirty. And Tatum, he got jobbed because of a legal hit and the aftermath. Madden should have let him go into that room to talk to Stingley.

[Reno Hightower]

Who knows? I was way too young when Paul got a burr up his ass about Snake.

Searches say its because of his "irresponsibility, lifestyle, drinking, etc" I don't believe that because if true why did Namath get in (rhetorical question there.)

Then there is this: The Bob Padecky incident
https://theforumcelebritypodcast.wordpr ... l-of-fame/

I've heard of this before but as to the accuracy as to all of it? Your guess is as good as mine as to who planted what.

As I understood it the mess started when Bob Padecky overheard Al rant about Stabler in 1978 on a flight back from a loss. Glenn Dickey was sitting next to Padecky, since Al was venting his displeasure in a public setting, Padecky surmised that it wasn't off the record thus he could use it in an article that later appeared in the sports beat. Other members of the press corps within earshot were smart enough not to touch it out of respect for both Al and Snake. Padecky was a young journalist and maybe a bit overzealous to make a name for himself.

It didn't exactly endear Padecky to Stabler who was typically very receptive with the press.

Padecky then stirred up the hornets nest when he went back to Gulf Shores in the off season to interview people for a series of articles about Stabler that were not exactly flattering. You don't go down to the South and f[raiders_icon]ck with a favorite son.

Padecky got what he got. Zimmerman was just a douche. In Padecky's defense he never seemed to harbor a grudge after things blew over.

Imagine how this would have played out in today's social media climate. Of course in the end Al was pulling all of the puppet strings anyways...

[raidersince63]

Wish I had the answer but it seems to me the whole voting system needs to be overhauled, starting with who gets to vote, what percent of the voting is required, etc. But again, who should get to decide that? ...Sportswriters?...Coaches?...Players?...Fans?

Unfortunately, I don't believe any of those 4 groups can be completely objective/unbiased, so I dunno.

Speaking of bias, I can't speak for everyone here but I honestly believe that even after all these years, there is still some "anti-Raider bias" in the NFL. Am I just being paranoid?...maybe, but maybe not.