Mandatory Mini Camp June 9th-June 11th

[KillerRaider30]

May 18, 20-21, 26, and 28-29, followed by a final session on June 1-4.

These workouts are held at the Intermountain Health Performance Center in Henderson, Nevada.

They serve as the voluntary Phase 3 of the team's offseason program, where 7-on-7, 9-on-7, and 11-on-11 drills are permitted without live contact.

Following OTAs, the Raiders are scheduled to hold their mandatory minicamp from June 6-11.

[raidersince63]

No they aren't. Both things contribute. Is one a more major contributer than the other? Yes. But both contribute therefore are not polar opposites

Sigh...Again, no. It was a very simple question. I clearly asked "What is more likely?".

And you just admitted there was a difference...you're free to pick one, but if you don't want to, well don't.

[Viper]

Sigh...Again, no. It was a very simple question. I clearly asked "What is more likely?".

And you just admitted there was a difference...you're free to pick one, but if you don't want to, well don't.

They are both contributing factors, not sure which was more likely, tho.

2 things can definitely be true at once and, especially in this instance. Giving more weight to one factor over another doesn’t negate this and it’s ok to put them together to come to a conclusion.

It’s obvious Thornton has issues and is a work in progress while also acknowledging our coaching staff was abysmal. Best we can hope for is the player takes a step forward to give our offense a much needed shot in the arm while our coaching staff helps put wins in the column by putting said player(s) in a position to succeed.

What the heck do I know? Some people do daily walking, yoga, stretching…seems most days I’ve taken a different route by doing daily cognitive surrender. Amazing I’ve lived as long as I have.

[raidersince63]

They are both contributing factors, not sure which was more likely, tho.

2 things can definitely be true at once and, especially in this instance. Giving more weight to one factor over another doesn’t negate this and it’s ok to put them together to come to a conclusion.

It’s obvious Thornton has issues and is a work in progress while also acknowledging our coaching staff was abysmal. Best we can hope for is the player takes a step forward to give our offense a much needed shot in the arm while our coaching staff helps put wins in the column by putting said player(s) in a position to succeed.

What the heck do I know? Some people do daily walking, yoga, stretching…seems most days I’ve taken a different route by doing daily cognitive surrender. Amazing I’ve lived as long as I have.

Yeah, not sure why this was made into something it's not. It was a simple question.

Is it "more likely" that last year's Raiders terrible showing because of Thornton, OR was Thornton's showing last year because of the Raiders?

As bad as the Raiders were last year from top to bottom, I cannot fathom how anyone would lay blame squarely on Thornton but it should be reasonable to believe that Thornton's season last year could be partly attributed to poor coaching, play calling, QBing, etc.

But I gotta ask, what is "daily cognitive surrender", and how do you personally apply it?

[Viper]

Yeah, not sure why this was made into something it's not. It was a simple question.

Is it "more likely" that last year's Raiders terrible showing because of Thornton, OR was Thornton's showing last year because of the Raiders?

As bad as the Raiders were last year from top to bottom, I cannot fathom how anyone would lay blame squarely on Thornton but it should be reasonable to believe that Thornton's season last year could be partly attributed to poor coaching, play calling, QBing, etc.

But I gotta ask, what is "daily cognitive surrender", and how do you personally apply it?

Haha

It’s an ancient dipshit secret

[Attyla]

I would normally not chime in on a debate such as this, but I will say in this case, while the wording of the original question was a bit odd, that Thornton's production could be due to his talent, or lack thereof, and the coaching at the same time. I am not sure how we could ever say that a guy who was on the field for 40% of the total offensive plays could ever be THE reason for the results, but you could make a case that getting 8 starts with a total of 10 catches is way underwhelming. Not seeing the end zone would also indicate that both ability and coaching were a factor.

That said, the NFL attributes wins and losses to only the coach and the QB for a reason. They are the most direct contributors to the results.

Is the book on Thornton complete? I do not think so, but at this point I would say that a smart coaching staff is going to be keeping their eyes out during cuts with a focus on offensive linemen and wideouts.

[Viper]

I would normally not chime in on a debate such as this, but I will say in this case, while the wording of the original question was a bit odd, that Thornton's production could be due to his talent, or lack thereof, and the coaching at the same time. I am not sure how we could ever say that a guy who was on the field for 40% of the total offensive plays could ever be THE reason for the results, but you could make a case that getting 8 starts with a total of 10 catches is way underwhelming. Not seeing the end zone would also indicate that both ability and coaching were a factor.

That said, the NFL attributes wins and losses to only the coach and the QB for a reason. They are the most direct contributors to the results.

Is the book on Thornton complete? I do not think so, but at this point I would say that a smart coaching staff is going to be keeping their eyes out during cuts with a focus on offensive linemen and wideouts.

I would think a smart coaching staff would be keeping their eyes out for any potential upgrade at any position during any time they are employed by a franchise.

[Attyla]

I would think a smart coaching staff would be keeping their eyes out for any potential upgrade at any position during any time they are employed by a franchise.

oh I agree, but teams are always well aware of the need positions and will pounce on that as fast as they get cut. People talked about us being in on Brown, and the position is a need, but this team seems to value their draft picks unlike a team like the Rams.

[raidersince63]

The original question was not "odd" unless it is viewed by those who would rather not answer.

Let's try this a different way;

What is more likely, that the Raiders' 3-14 record last year caused by Thornton alone, OR was Thornton's #s alone last year caused by the Raiders 3-14 record?

People are free to pick one, but either way, no need to dissect a simple question.

[BoKnows81]

Imagine calling people out for "dissecting a simple question" while......dissecting the question yourself.

I do not believe the "bad coaching last year" logic applies to a guy like Thornton. Lack of college production is a HUGE red flag while being drafted into the NFL. We shall see.

And no, a guy that was drafted in 1972 is not a fair comparison.

[Attyla]

It was odd in that the question attributed the results to a guy who was on the field 40% of the offensive snaps.

As for the revamped question? I actually think it is a foolish debate. A receiver will never be the reason for the results. They have no control over who the QB will throw to, even if they are getting open. And a receivers numbers will never be caused by a team record. Neither is more likely. The actual answer is far more complex. Coaching and talent are the primary reasons for a receivers numbers but the talent under center is the deciding factor. Calvin Johnson was balls to the walls the season they went 4-12 with a record setting 1964 yards. If the receiver decided a record, that team should have gone 16-0, won the super bowl, won the world series and hoisted Lord Stanley's cup. And yet, Johnson's record setting season attained one more win that the 10 catch Thornton.

[RI RAIDER]

I do not know enough about this Thornton other than the fact that his size/speed is off the charts (you obviously can not teach that). We can only hope that he pans out (although he may be gone after this year). I found it odd that Papa Brandon hated young players (and some vets for that matter), but did give this kid an opportunity (either though he was not ready). I would not be surprised if he was Brandon's pick and he wanted to prove that he was the smartest person in the room.

[Viper]

It was odd in that the question attributed the results to a guy who was on the field 40% of the offensive snaps.

As for the revamped question? I actually think it is a foolish debate. A receiver will never be the reason for the results. They have no control over who the QB will throw to, even if they are getting open. And a receivers numbers will never be caused by a team record. Neither is more likely. The actual answer is far more complex. Coaching and talent are the primary reasons for a receivers numbers but the talent under center is the deciding factor. Calvin Johnson was balls to the walls the season they went 4-12 with a record setting 1964 yards. If the receiver decided a record, that team should have gone 16-0, won the super bowl, won the world series and hoisted Lord Stanley's cup. And yet, Johnson's record setting season attained one more win that the 10 catch Thornton.

Luck may have more sway than a receiver playing 40 percent of the time

[raidersince63]

lol...not surprised. I did not dissect anything...instead, I tried to simplify it for those who could not grasp the original. And comparing Branch and Thornton is a fair comparison...both were extremely fast but in their first year, neither caught the ball well.

[raidersince63]

I do not know enough about this Thornton other than the fact that his size/speed is off the charts (you obviously can not teach that). We can only hope that he pans out (although he may be gone after this year). I found it odd that Papa Brandon hated young players (and some vets for that matter), but did give this kid an opportunity (either though he was not ready). I would not be surprised if he was Brandon's pick and he wanted to prove that he was the smartest person in the room.

Yup, size and speed is what got him drafted.

[chucker]

There's a chance that Thornton develops into a real NFL WR. The reality is that he should never have been near the top of the depth chart as a rookie. It's also reality that he is essentially still a rookie in development terms because of the awful coaching last season. We don't really know more about him than we did a year ago when he was drafted and he was raw and needed development and was more likely to be nothing than something. That's what you get with a toolsy WR in the 4th round.