Emo Andy Dalton after a trip to Sephora on Groundhog Day (Carr thread)

[RaiderandBulldog]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Raiders/stat ... 3878636548

[RaiderandBulldog]

In terms of talent and ability Adams isn’t wrong. Carr can make every throw on the field and has elite arm talent.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ihartitz/sta ... 6355645440

They also used the NFL Primetime Bill them here so shout out to that.

[Hellbound]

[quote=RaiderandBulldog post_id=1067340]In terms of talent and ability Adams isn’t wrong. Carr can make every throw on the field and has elite arm talent.

https://twitter.com/ihartitz/status/1536062876355645440

They also used the NFL Primetime Bill them here so shout out to that.[/quote]Again, no one is arguing his talent/ability (unless there's a clear agenda).

It's the rest of his game that can be questioned. I still haven't seen him throw a receiver open or have anticipation throws on a regular basis. How often does a receiver have to break stride, wait or adjust to the ball killing his momentum to catch a ball? A split second could be the difference between a huge play/td or a routine 10-15 yd pass play. Things like that matter more than what people on here want to admit

So as far as the talent/ability comment, sure, I agree. As for the rest of his game, not even close

[Jeremyturner1976]

[quote=Hellbound post_id=1067352]Again, no one is arguing his talent/ability (unless there's a clear agenda).

It's the rest of his game that can be questioned. I still haven't seen him throw a receiver open or have anticipation throws on a regular basis. How often does a receiver have to break stride, wait or adjust to the ball killing his momentum to catch a ball? A split second could be the difference between a huge play/td or a routine 10-15 yd pass play. Things like that matter more than what people on here want to admit

So as far as the talent/ability comment, sure, I agree. As for the rest of his game, not even close[/quote]There is a reason Carr is 11-13 and Rodgers is 1-3, and that reason is absolutely the parts of his game that you are talking about.

It makes it tough to watch, knowing what he 'could' be, but then watching him Gopher ball it instead.

* Carr handled this really well in this interview imo. I do believe Carr has a level of physical talent that many don't have.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BriABC30/sta ... 23p1067353

[Hellbound]

[quote=Jeremyturner1976 post_id=1067353]There is a reason Carr is 11-13 and Rodgers is 1-3, and that reason is absolutely the parts of his game that you are talking about.

It makes it tough to watch, knowing what he 'could' be, but then watching him Gopher ball it instead.

* Carr handled this really well in this interview imo. I do believe Carr has a level of physical talent that many don't have.
https://twitter.com/BriABC30/status/153 ... 23p1067353[/quote]Agree I think Carr has top level talent. Just for whatever reason he hasn't played at that level. at least on a consistent basis

[Xramfan]

[quote=signal post_id=1067267]Agree! Good post.

I think Carr has an outstanding arm. But it is exactly those qualities you mention that separate him from someone like Rodgers.

Carr has the physical tools, but he lacks the heart.

It sort of reminds me of OZ. Carr is that player who lacks heart, courage and a brain; but damn is he blessed with an arm. Josh needs to perform a miracle and get Carr the heart, courage and brain to win....and to HATE losing.[/quote]Thats why he is elite when wearing the red jersey or playing against a prevent defense.....hes great with no real threat of getting hit however when fear rears its ugly head he goes full fetal. No mamba. It is truly why he frustrates me to no end because physically he can do it all and be elite.......but seemingly only in practice.

I said in another thread awhile ago, it reminds me of years ago me and buddy would play some tennis. Warming up we would crush the ball accurately whether serving or forehand smashes. When it came to game time and keeping score, we would play it safe hitting softly so as to not make mistakes. I knew what was happening but couldn't change it. It was so mental. Thats what I see in Carr

[Raidernation1979]

[quote=Hellbound post_id=1067355]Agree I think Carr has top level talent. Just for whatever reason he hasn't played at that level. at least on a consistent basis[/quote]Elite physical tools. Doesn’t put it together enough on game day. He has about 4 elite type games. 4 really bad games. And about 8 average games. Sometimes you even see it in games. From an elite play to a wtf play

[raiders93]

[quote=Willmark post_id=1067326]Building off this, there is literally no excuses for Carr this year. None.

The funny part if the Carr supporters haven't thought about? If the Raiders Offense explodes for a ton of points this year? It's because of what we put around him, not what he's done. Because if the reason why we "failed"prior on Offense is not his fault, the reason why we succeed is likewise not because of him. You don't get to have it both ways.

Oh,whats that? Don’t like the Magicians Force rule turned around on you? Thought so.[/quote]I think like anything else it’s not quite that black and white. Over the last few years Carrs probably partially responsible for us not being a 10 win team and partially responsible for us not being a 4 win team. QBs naturally tend to get more credit than they deserve for success and more blame than they deserve for failure. If the offence explodes I’m sure carr will probably get an undeserved amount of praise considering the team around him. Just the same as he probably got an undeserved amount of blame considering the team around him in recent years past.

[Xramfan]

[quote=raiders93 post_id=1067366]I think like anything else it’s not quite that black and white. Over the last few years Carrs probably partially responsible for us not being a 10 win team and partially responsible for us not being a 4 win team. QBs naturally tend to get more credit than they deserve for success and more blame than they deserve for failure. If the offence explodes I’m sure carr will probably get an undeserved amount of praise considering the team around him. Just the same as he probably got an undeserved amount of blame considering the team around him in recent years past.[/quote]If Carr was in year 2 or 3 I would agree 100%.

We have watched him for several years now and his weaknesses are true. Rarely if ever hits receivers in stride.
Horrid holding the ball when pressured and hit.
Below average play action as he despises turning his back to the defense.
Does get rattled and frustrated early if hit hard a few times.

All these things aren’t uncommon with many QBs but that is why most QBs are average to good but not elite.

Carr is average and sometimes good but certainly not close to elite. He truly needs everything around him to be complete. He needs to be carried, not the other way around. He isn’t great and he isn’t bad. He is the slurry mix in the middle called medium/good.

Hope he makes me eat my hat this season

[signal]

[quote=Xramfan post_id=1067387]If Carr was in year 2 or 3 I would agree 100%.

We have watched him for several years now and his weaknesses are true. Rarely if ever hits receivers in stride.
Horrid holding the ball when pressured and hit.
Below average play action as he despises turning his back to the defense.
Does get rattled and frustrated early if hit hard a few times.

All these things aren’t uncommon with many QBs but that is why most QBs are average to good but not elite.

Carr is average and sometimes good but certainly not close to elite. He truly needs everything around him to be complete. He needs to be carried, not the other way around. He isn’t great and he isn’t bad. He is the slurry mix in the middle called medium/good.

Hope he makes me eat my hat this season[/quote]If Josh could find a way to get Carr to play angry more often...he may have a chance of turning him around. Whenever I look at the great ones play, at their best, they have a look on their face that seems to suggest that they are damned and determined to rip the D a new one.

I have seen Carr angry for a few moments in his career and it does work for him. Unfortunately I have seen him sulk far too much. When adversity hits, he needs to stop getting rattled and then sulk...he needs to get f[raiders_icon]cking angry. Josh needs to find a way to get him there. To see that he is his worst enemy at times.

Navel gazing is not going to win you games. He has to come to understand that the other 11 men on the field on the other side are trying to f[raiders_icon]ck him up and that has to piss him off. He has to go into games giving no quarter, no mercy, no pity, damned and determined to move that ball no matter what.

It appears to me that he quits on too many plays, especially when they break down, when the D anticipates correctly what the O will do and he simply gives up on the play. The great ones, say f[raiders_icon]ck you, I will make this work anyways. It is almost like he has convinced himself that the play is determined before the snap, and if it does not go as planned then might as well give up on it. The great ones, only get pissed off and then do what it takes to make the D still pay.

In another thread, Chucker asked to share your fav Raider play. For me it is the Marcus run in the Super Bowl. Why? Because the D sniffed out the run to that side....had it completely stuffed and Marcus, decides to say f[raiders_icon]ck you and turn and take the play in a completely different direction and he takes it all the way. Carr needs to get his mind right, to think in those terms. He needs to stop giving up on plays so easily when the D appears to have initially done their job. He needs to know, in those moments, that yes, this is an opportunity for something else.

Carr needs to play angry and understand that a play is not over until he makes it work.

[Opoponax50]

[quote=Jeremyturner1976 post_id=1067353]It makes it tough to watch, knowing what he 'could' be...[/quote]Eh, if he could be a top tier QB he would be. The best have the intangibles that can't be taught/learned. IOW, either you have it or you don't.

It's unfortunate because the league's rules dictate that the teams with the best QBs will have a shot at a championship while everyone else won't. It's created a league where the talent at QB is almost the exclusive success factor.

The QB has always been the most important player on the field, but you could counteract that in a number of ways and still field a competitive team. And you certainly can't build a dynasty without a top 5 QB. It's too hard to hold together a top defense, o-line, etc, because those players are going to quickly get poached; your DC and/or OC is going to get poached.

[RI RAIDER]

DC looks like one of the best QB's in the league (yes I said it) when he has time and there is nobody around him. The kid has a tremendous arm and can make the hardest throws (although he has zero touch on the easiest of short floating throws). Unfortunately for us, there is far more in being a top QB in the league. We all know his demons and shortcomings. Hopefully Josh is up to the task in putting him in position where he doesn't get rattled because the wheels fall off when the pressure mounts. Strangely enough, it still surprises me how easily he gets rattled because he has been BRILLIANT at times in terms of 4th quarter come backs (he plays with ice in his veins).

[Rainman56]

[quote=signal post_id=1067396]Whenever I look at the great ones play, at their best, they have a look on their face[/quote]https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SeriousBitesi ... ax-1mb.gif

[352Raider]

Rainman, what did you post?

https://media1.giphy.com/media/HttEDl2X ... y.gif&ct=g

[black soul]

[quote=RaiderandBulldog post_id=1067340]In terms of talent and ability Adams isn’t wrong. Carr can make every throw on the field and has elite arm talent.

https://twitter.com/ihartitz/status/1536062876355645440

They also used the NFL Primetime Bill them here so shout out to that.[/quote]There have been plenty of Qb's with the pre-requisite physical gifts and not much else in regards to intangibles that have been in the league with mediocre results.

You are lying to yourself if you think the Raiders Qb is anywhere near the level of Rodgers.
For example, since 2019 Adams has missed 7 games. In those games the Packers have gone 7-0 and averaged over 30 points per game and Rodgers has thrown for 19 TD's and 1 interception.

The Raiders current Qb is a guy some people constantly make excuses for, he doesn't have this or that etc. etc. year after year. Rodgers is a Qb that elevates the play of those around him and has done so for much of his career.

The Raiders Qb has all the pre-requisite physical gifts and not much else.
If you re-watch this past season's game against Washington, you will see an undrafted Qb beat the Raiders that has many of the qualities the Raiders Qb lacks.

Taylor Heinecke was undrafted and has a weak arm but plays with grit and heart.
Combine his intangibles with someone with prototype physical gifts then you have something. Comparing the Raiders Qb to a future first ballot HOF Qb with a Super Bowl ring is a joke.

[raiderkoch]

[quote=Xramfan post_id=1067359]Thats why he is elite when wearing the red jersey or playing against a prevent defense.....hes great with no real threat of getting hit however when fear rears its ugly head he goes full fetal. No mamba. It is truly why he frustrates me to no end because physically he can do it all and be elite.......but seemingly only in practice.

I said in another thread awhile ago, it reminds me of years ago me and buddy would play some tennis. Warming up we would crush the ball accurately whether serving or forehand smashes. When it came to game time and keeping score, we would play it safe hitting softly so as to not make mistakes. I knew what was happening but couldn't change it. It was so mental. Thats what I see in Carr[/quote]I find this whole “fear and full fetal” argument pretty ridiculous, given the times that he’s tried to extend runs and taken hits or gotten nailed for fumbles, then everyone is screaming “he is pushing too much”. So, which is it?

I’m thinking when he has protected the ball and gone down prematurely it’s because his coaches got on him for being careless with the ball, which has happened. It was also acknowledged that Gruden was on him several times to protect the ball. That said, I also acknowledge Carr sometimes shows a lack of awareness around him and other times looks elite at it, even climbing the pocket when he’s in with hood line play.

And his line play, at many times gives him good reason to be more than a little concerned. With so many scheme changes and everything that had gone on season to season, Why do many seem to also ignore that? Gotta be realistic and acknowledge both that he isn’t perfect and that the situation around him for most of his career has been unstable at best.